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AE drives the NLE decision
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At Promiflash we get Templates made in Ae, work perfect in X:-)
“Always look on the bright side of life” – Monty Python
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[David Cherniack] “(I ask because I don’t use either product). I’ve never been able to understand the design team’s reasoning behind this choice of architecture.”
It’s not as bad as people make it out to be, especially if you are on true shared storage, in professional environments.
There are what some might see as advantages to the structure in that almost any XML you send will also send your Event organization structure without sending a separate XML for bins, timelines, etc. That is to say, your organization choices also travel with a timeline XML. It’s actually not so bad. When all the media is available on the same shared storage system, there’s no relinking, there’s no finding media, it simply hooks up.
I’m not saying FCPX is perfect, it isn’t, but when you kick the tires on a shared storage system, there are sides to the software that reveal themselves to you that are simply not available on local storage, and it certainly has nothing to do with iMovie besides a passing resemblance.
Local storage does take some working around, but a $4.99 application helps to keep things organized.
Jeremy
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[Jeremy Garchow] “If a particular outfit sees advantages to fcpx then getting to Ae isn’t the obstacle that’s going to get in the way of getting work done.”
Agreed — but “getting to Ae isn’t an obstacle” is not a selling point.
“Integration with Ae” or “you get it free when you buy Ae anyway” or even maybe “you’ve had it on your hard drive for years and never really noticed before but should probably give it a spin now” is.
The more Ae-focused you are, the more attractive Pr may naturally look. The more FCPX-focused you are, the more attractive Motion may naturally look. I think you have to have pretty specific requirements to be more naturally inclined to consider an FCPX/Ae or Pr/Motion workflow.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “I think you have to have pretty specific requirements to be more naturally inclined to consider an FCPX/Ae or Pr/Motion workflow.”
I am not a motion graphics artist, but I use Ae all the time.
When I do use Pr, I do not use dynamic link. It simply doesn’t work as well as I want it to. It is much easier to keep Ae and Pr separate.
If Ae and Pr are separate, what is the advantage of me using Pr when FCPX might suit my needs better since Ae and FCPX are separate?
You may be correct in that it isn’t a selling point (neither is the motion integration when getting from FCP to Motion without a predetermined rigged template) but it doesn’t get in the way of me using the tools I want to use.
I am not saying FCPX is better than Pr or Pr is better than FCPX, all I am saying is that it is entirely possible to use Ae and FCPX just like we did with FCP7. There’s not a whole heck of a lot of difference.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “When I do use Pr, I do not use dynamic link. It simply doesn’t work as well as I want it to. It is much easier to keep Ae and Pr separate.”
Agreed. DL between Ae/Pr is cool for simple comps, but it doesn’t perform well with more complicated ones.
I use intermediate renders with project links instead.
[Jeremy Garchow] “If Ae and Pr are separate, what is the advantage of me using Pr when FCPX might suit my needs better since Ae and FCPX are separate?”
If FCPX suits your needs better, of course you should use it. Like you say, it’s not like FCPX and Ae can’t work together. You don’t have to pick one or the other.
However, if Pr and FCPX both suit your needs well, and if you rely on Ae, which NLE are you going to chose?
Or, if you really like the Ae philosophy, in which NLE will you feel more at home?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Walter Soyka] “However, if Pr and FCPX both suit your needs well, and if you rely on Ae, which NLE are you going to chose?”
Me personally? The jury is till out on an FCP7 successor, but I don’t think Pr is a shoe in. I rely on Ae.
[Walter Soyka] “Or, if you really like the Ae philosophy, in which NLE will you feel more at home?”
So, are we talking about editors, or motion graphic designers that edit?
Or are we talking about just straight editing?
Or we talking about the editor/designer?
The control panels might look similar, but the actual timeline in Ae and Pr are very different.
If you are a motion graphics creator and you need to edit, sure Pr makes a lot of sense since you have it anyway if you have the Creative Suite, but I am not sure it will “drive the NLE decision” industry wide.
It’s just not that cut and dry.
Of the dedicated motion graphics artists I work with, they could give a hoot what NLE I use, even though they all use Ae (and some C4D).
I also think that Smoke, if you really truly need a hybrid of broadcast editing/graphics/color/fx, would blow all of these options out of the water provided you had a readily available artist talent pool.
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[Walter Soyka] “My anecdotal experience is that editors who do not also produce motion graphics themselves are vastly more open to FCPX than those who do. I have no idea how true this may be elsewhere.”
I do a lot of Motion Graphics work with AE (though still primarily an editor), and I preferred FCP7 and now prefer FCPX as my NLE. I find I can do a lot of the simpler things I used to do in AE in FCPX directly (same for sound and color correction). For more complex motion graphics projects the time I spend interfacing between AE and FCPX is negligible. I can understand certain niche markets and certain project workflows needing Dynamic Link, but I’ve never found it to save all that much time over my current main workflows… especially if you make proper use of smart collections and auditions.
Doing more rather than less in my NLE directly has always been the holy grail for me.
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[Jeremy Garchow] “So, are we talking about editors, or motion graphic designers that edit? Or are we talking about just straight editing? Or we talking about the editor/designer?”
Speaking for myself, I’m talking about the designer/editor. Oliver may have had something different in mind.
[Jeremy Garchow] “If you are a motion graphics creator and you need to edit, sure Pr makes a lot of sense since you have it anyway if you have the Creative Suite, but I am not sure it will “drive the NLE decision” industry wide. It’s just not that cut and dry.”
Agree 100%. In my mind, this conversation is about a niche.
[Jeremy Garchow] “Of the dedicated motion graphics artists I work with, they could give a hoot what NLE I use, even though they all use Ae (and some C4D).”
Sure. If I’m not editing the piece, I don’t care what NLE the editor is using, either. I do my thing, the editor does his or hers. (Which is sad, because if the editor is using FCPX I should want to use Motion.)
[Jeremy Garchow] “I also think that Smoke, if you really truly need a hybrid of broadcast editing/graphics/color/fx, would blow all of these options out of the water provided you had a readily available artist talent pool.”
I have started using Smoke now, too, where it’s the right tool for the job. I like it quite a bit, but it’s strength lies in its workflow and breadth of toolset, not in the depth of any particular area of the toolset. In my mind, it’s still missing some really important stuff I’d need to use it as a full-time design tool.
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
RenderBreak Blog – What I’m thinking when my workstation’s thinking
Creative Cow Forum Host: Live & Stage Events -
[Alex Hawkins] “. . . But a bit unnecessarily cruel.”
Cruel? Nah.
In order to be cruel, you’ve got to possess and wield the power to make your target feel emotionally vulnerable and diminished.
Not the case here.
Know someone who teaches video editing in elementary school, high school or college? Tell them to check out http://www.StartEditingNow.com – video editing curriculum complete with licensed practice content.
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[Walter Soyka] “I have started using Smoke now, too, where it’s the right tool for the job. I like it quite a bit, but it’s strength lies in its workflow and breadth of toolset, not in the depth of any particular area of the toolset. In my mind, it’s still missing some really important stuff I’d need to use it as a full-time design tool.”
But in the market that Oliver pointed out, broadcast promo/advertisement Smoke is truly pretty awesome.
As has been mentioned everywhere, it takes a minute to learn and gain confidence in the application.
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