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Absolutely flabergasted! 25 y.o. crew member gives my client his business card
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As one of the dreaded under thirties, I’ll say that most of us appreciate when older people take the opportunity to let us know when we’ve done something wrong. My schooling didn’t cover freelancing, and it certainly didn’t cover if it was bad form to hand out a business card in a situation. You seem to understand this education gap, so why not be honest and direct about it?
Because here’s my take: you say, besides the lateness and stuff, he’s a decent sound guy. If you took the opportunity to say something to people who seem worthwhile, you might end up molding them into exactly what you look for when you’re hiring a person — before they’re old!
Maybe not this dude, but in the future if you find yourself hiring some young people, something to keep in mind.
blog: kyleesportfolio.com/blog
twitter: @kyl33t
demo: kyleewall.com -
Yes Walter & Mark have hit it on the head. The Millenials have a whole different way of looking at work and business relationships, there are many TED Talks on the subject such as:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-enHH-r_FM
I have a Millenial son and daughter. Their relationships to the people who hire them is quite a different mind set than what my generation practices. Perhaps I should have a New (Young) Person Checklist and mention some of my idiosyncrasies such as: Don’t hand my clients your business card, don’t trust estimated drive times from GPS, use two alarm clocks, no underwear showing, do not look at your phone until the lunch break, etc. I suppose I have been doing this for so long I take all this for granted as common sense. I have never had to do so much handholding as I have in the last few years.
In the “old days” we all could count on a production community through the Illinois Film Guide, Chicago Film Office, etc. but that has now moved to Craigslist, like it or not. I have never gotten any work from CL but I have had to post for various services and have found really good crew members and post specialists. In fact, I am about to produce a training series and will get ALL my talent from CL. My last major project my lead actress showed up with an oozing cold sore from my long time talent agency (so no more talent agencies!) I had rented a grocery store and was faced with a possible re-shoot I could not afford. Sorry to digress….
I wish I was 25 and starting out again! The only upside to getting older is you are more experienced.
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
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In the old days people came up through a more structured system and learned these things on their way to becoming a sound person, editor, DP, etc.,. Now that structure is gone so there will be many more inexperienced people at higher level positions.
As an aside, I can’t think of the last time I used a paper map for something other than hiking trails. I keep printed maps in my car for redundancy but my GPS receives live traffic updates via RF and re-routes on the fly if need be and Google Maps (I can’t vouch for MapQuest) includes ETA based on current traffic conditions and I’ve found it to pretty on the money (at least in the greater Los Angeles area). I still err on the side of caution though because, as a mentor of mine put it, to be early is to be on time. I’m in my mid-30’s so I guess that makes me a ‘tweener’ for this discussion.
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Not to take the thread off track too much more, but I have a paper map anecdote. When I was like 23, I was in an unfamiliar city and state trying to find a hotel with a producer (who was 50 or so). His wife was driving, he was navigating with a paper map. He got us completely lost. I pulled out my phone to Google map an actual route, and he says oh, great idea!
He then proceeds to pull out his smart phone and CALL INFORMATION.
I’m just sayin’, the age thing has less to do with getting places on time than common sense and small doses of tech savvy.
blog: kyleesportfolio.com/blog
twitter: @kyl33t
demo: kyleewall.com -
I’m certainly no where NEAR still in my 20s, but I too find Ned’s hiring restrictions a little… well bizarre isn’t quite the right word, but close. Maybe arcane is a better word.
I’d point out that he can hire whomever he wants and NOT hire whomever he wants by whatever criteria he chooses. I’d suggest though that maybe he shouldn’t broadcast those criteria as such.
You can choose not to hire someone in their 20s. But you shouldn’t say that. Much better to say “I’ll only hire someone with 15 years of experience.” That knocks the 20-somethings out without being blatant about it. Or illegal.
You can’t say “men only” or “no women” for a grip position. But if you specify “must be able to lift 200 pounds,” well, that’s going to lean toward one gender over the other.
Age, gender, ethnicity, marital status, religion… a bunch of things like that you should not specify when soliciting an employee, even a freelancer…or broadcast in a forum that this is your policy. To do so is inviting a lawsuit. And being close-minded enough that it probably knocks quite a few good people out of the running.
I’m reminded of the first episode of the great Mary Tyler Moore show, when Mary was applying for her job at WJM-TV and was interviewing with Lou Grant…
LOU:
What’s your religion.MARY:
Ummm… Mr. Grant, you’re not allowed to ask that.LOU:
Grrr. Ok…… why aren’t you married?MARY:
(pause)… Episcopalian.As for the business card bit, I’m with Walter. Ignorance, yes… but nah, no big deal.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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But….how do I hire someone with 10-15 years experience who is still in their twenties?
Ned Miller
Chicago Videographer
http://www.nedmiller.com
www,bizvideo.com -
[Ned Miller] “But….how do I hire someone with 10-15 years experience who is still in their twenties?”
That’s the point. You don’t.
You said one of your rules (that you broke) was that you don’t hire people under 30.
If you want to stick with that rule, don’t broadcast that. But if you do say they have to have a certain years’ worth of experience, that will let you legally (and without being blatantly ageist) restrict yourself to the 30+ group.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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You hire ten year old kids – the whole paper delivery route is falling by the wayside, and selling greeting cards is too tough – many of the ten year olds these days are getting apps money by gripping and doing audio on high-end productions. It’s not publicized much, since it’s illegal, but many of them are making a good living working under the table… :>)
Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com -
[Kylee Wall] “As one of the dreaded under thirties, I’ll say that most of us appreciate when older people take the opportunity to let us know when we’ve done something wrong.”
I’ll also add that to summarily dismiss any candidates just because they’re young cuts a production owner off from a wealth of creative folks. Some of them have great creative chops and discipline while the vast majority of those I meet are missing the latter. Especially professionalism on the job and understanding that a deadline in the real world doesn’t result in a bad grade.
But I’ve had excellent success bringing in “youngsters” throughout my company’s life. I love the freshness they often bring to the table because they literally “don’t know any better.” They just do what feels right. Blend that with my oversight and experience to pass along and we generally end up with creative ideas I never would have thought of on my own.
Field production is definitely a bit different and you were put in a bad position, but don’t ever summarily lop off a whole group of creatives just due to their age.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Editor, Colorist, Director, Writer, Consultant, Author, Chef.
HD Post and Production
Biscardi Creative MediaFoul Water Fiery Serpent, an original documentary featuring Sigourney Weaver. US & European distribution by American Public Television
MTWD Entertainment – Developing original content for all media.
“This American Land” – our new PBS Series.
“Science Nation” – Three years and counting of Science for the People. -
When I started at my current job, I was the young buck just out of college full of abstract book learnin’ and fresh ideas, and the guys on the crew were all older than me, and a bit skeptical of everything I wanted to do or try. I often found myself having to sell them on why I wanted to something in a certain, unaccustomed way, and explaining obscure terms to them from my college training didn’t always help.
It made for some challenging times when I had to be director.
Now I sometimes work under folks who hadn’t yet gotten their driver’s licenses when I was already well into this career, who sometimes look at me with skepticism regarding my relevance, instead of regarding me as a deeply knowledgeable resource. I like to think I have a better perspective on the inter-generational thing. It helps that I still tend to think like a young person, I guess.
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