A “Place” sold the company I’m helping a KONA 3 system without BLACKBURST?…

[Mike Most — account bouncing, bad address]

For at least the 10th time here….

D5 is NOT, I repeat, NOT uncompressed, unless you’re using it in standard definition. In fact, there is no current HD videotape format that is uncompressed, including HDCam SR. They are ALL compressed formats, albeit with different levels of compression and different compression schemes. The only uncompressed HD digital videotape format that was ever released was D6, and it never achieved any real degree of acceptance, particularly in the US. It is now basically a forgotten format.

[Bob Zelin]

Hi Mike –
Of course, you are correct. Let’s face it, even in the standard def world, even Digi Beta was never “uncompressed” – but it was “considered” uncompressed by those that count (the non technical ad agencies, and TV QC departments that we had to deliver to).

With that in mind, there are THREE standards of HD delivery today – DVCPro HD, which relates to Panasonic VTR’s, uncompressed 8 and 10 bit – which relates to Sony HDCam VTR’s and D5 VTRs, and 4:4:4 which relates to the Sony SR5500 line. Most customers will not accept an HDCam master from (typically) a HDW-F500 that was done at DVCProHD compression. So we use 8 or 10 bit uncompressed (whatever we can get away with) – and so the “buzzword” “uncompressed” gets related to Sony HDCam VTR’s.

I got used to this in “the old days” with D1 VTR’s and Digi Beta VTR’s, and watched the evolution of how (miraculously) Digi Beta DVW-A500 VTR’s became “uncompressed Video”. I bet you 95% our our industry still thinks that Digi Beta SD delivery is true uncompressed video.

With all this said, the true industry standard – the AVID – is only doing DNxHD220 compression – even with Sony VTRs – like the HDW-F500, and SR5500 – so what the hell does all of this mean anyway.

Bob Zelin

[Walter Biscardi]

[Mike Most] “D5 is NOT, I repeat, NOT uncompressed, unless you’re using it in standard definition. In fact, there is no current HD videotape format that is uncompressed,”

That’s ok, people still call DigiBeta uncompressed, even thought it’s not. Really beating your head on the wall because D5 and HDCAM are “considered” uncompressed because they offer the least compression you can get.

kind if funny considering how many people argue the whole YOU MUST USE 10BIT UNCOMPRESSED OR ELSE since you can’t master back to a true uncompressed tape format. really really close to uncompressed, but not quite.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”

“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters

[Mike Most — account bouncing, bad address]

Only if you consider the Adrenaline the top of the Avid line. Both the DS Nitris and the Symphony Nitris (which are the same hardware anyway) work uncompressed. And with the 4:4:4, upgrade, they work uncompressed in dual link RGB as well. Of course, it is also true that any material coming into those systems – or just about any editing system – is coming in from a tape source, so “uncompressed” – at least as far as the source material – doesn’t really exist anyway.

[Mike J.]

bravo?

I think Bob is a bit presumtious, cocky and angerfilled to say “bravo”, Gary. Perhaps the best way to set us annoying folks straight..is to write No responses at all…

..but that would require you to not have the opprotunity to flaunt the attitude.

Bob…people really, really appreciate you here and your feedback in this forum… So thank you but does it really need to come with such a disgust for people which is seems aren’t aren’t you?

Obivously you are aware of it and display it in you profile. Relax, dude. Try actually reading the whole questions FIRST before you go off half cocked polluting us with unecessary syntax.

And seriously, Gary, Bravo?

[Gary Adcock]

Point taken Mike

But still I do agree with bob’s first paragraph, and I am one of the people lucky enough to be able to work with tools of this caliber in addition to working in LA on a regular basis, even though I live in Chicago.

But when the we see posts such as yours, with all of the talented integrators out there, and you working on systems that very, very few people on these forums ever see.

In orlando, atlanta and Chicago outside of a few post houses D5’s almost do not exist. When the deck costs as much as D5 and SRW’s do, then it is time to make sure that you have the proper professional resources to design and integrate, as well as support your production whether you are just starting out or at the level that your production has attained.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows

My DVD’s are available @
https://www.rastervector.com/dvd/dvd.html

[Mike J.]

Exactly…no arguements on that.

Just know that although you guys see this equipment as a pot of gold… folks here buy things an expect the “box” so to speak to do everything for them…that it just works out of the box..like a blender.

The place I was refering to actually didn’t purchase all that gear, some are leased and the D5 is a rental. I was just helping out after hours and they didn’t have a blackburst. I’m new to the Kona 3 so I was curious if it could work right without a blackburst. Honestly… if you scroll back..that’s what I posted about…

It was the regulars that started the unnecessary attitude.

Ultimately I just wanted to help somebody out in a deadline situation and I thought this would be a place to ask that blackburst question.

What was written seemed more about a deserved yet lack of access to the same equipment. I lived and worked in Chicago for a few years. It wasn’t going anywhere…so I moved to a “far more expensive to live” area that uses gear at the same striving level as you both…more expensive gear…but the that is only comparable to the market.

Greener grass and all that yada yada… Somewhere somebody is tired of have sex with Halle Berry. You know what I mean.

[Bob Zelin]

Hi Mike –
my unnecessary attitude expresses my frustration towards my clients and your clients, as you have described in your post –

you write –

“folks here buy things an expect the “box” so to speak to do everything for them…that it just works out of the box..like a blender”

Customers these days often feel “lets get a $100,000 VTR, but I ain’t hiring NO ONE to install it” – or – Let’s get an AVID Nitris, but I ain’t paying Mike to edit – he is too expensive – let’s get this kid to edit, who will charge us $75 per day”.

I put a lot of effort out to show my clients how wonderful the AJA Kona 3 is, and how wonderful the Panasonic DVCProHD VTRs are – and how much they can save by buying these products – but they STILL HAVE TO HIRE ME, and they STILL HAVE TO HIRE YOU TO EDIT ! These products can cost 10 bucks, or 10 million bucks, but you STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR A QUALIFIED EDITOR. These days, may clients feel that they can get ANYONE to edit – and they don’t need you Mike – they can get some kid.

Sorry – but this makes me upset, and is the basis for my frustration in these posts. You pointed it out very well – they got a D5 machine – it costs a lot of money – how come they need someone qualified to make it work, and what the hell are all these little boxes !!!!
I know that in many of the posts on these forums, there is this poor kid, who just wants to keep his first job, and the rich company that hired him has basically said to him “you get this to work, or you are fired” – and he is scrambling to make his FCP system work – with no support or additional equipment from anyone.

Bob Zelin

[Phil Erney]

You guys are a trip…. Someone help the guy out, on the spectrum of this board the questions its not unreasonable.

1st- No problem on capture because the Kona card ignore genlock on capture and locks to incoming video regardless of kona control panel settings.

2nd-Pano decks are a bit different in menu options if you have never used them. (ya, ok move beyond that) It sound like the Deck is looking for house sync and you also need to make some TC changes. Genlock is important but in a 1 deck and 1 system setup without genlock your sync should only be off by up to 1 frame. Not on big jump like reported, turn to your deck settings and perhaps you deck control protocol.

ON the compressed debate, compare pulling keys off HDCam to Direct to Disk or log files and you will never argue that HDCam is uncompressed again. Its worse then DBeta.

Phil
Cubist Post and Effects