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1350va 810 watts
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> I have been surprised how hard it has been to get clear advice on what to buy and how it works when it comes to UPS.
Most who recommend a UPS have no idea what it really does. These are identified by subjective statements. For example, many ‘know’ a pure sine wave is needed. Total bull. Due to robust protection inside a PSU, even ‘dirtier’ power is ideal. In fact, a square or stepped wave output (rather than a sine wave) means more battery power ends up in the computer. That same square or stepped wave can be harmful to small motors. And perfectly good for electronics.
And still so many want a pure sine wave only because emotion says it is necessary. Meanwhile, where is the number that defines a pure sine wave (ie %THD)? Not provided by the many who need pure sine waves and do not even hava a number for it.
Same with brownouts. Let’s put some numbers to it. Incandescent bulbs can dim to 40% intensity. Even voltage that low is perfectly good for a computer. How often do you have brownouts? Something like never? UPS is really only for blackouts.
Since specific numbers have not been provided for every appliance, then nobody can really say how long that X number of minutes is. However, expect at least 10 minutes with a UPS that large. How do you get power requirements for each appliance? Get a Kill-A-Watt or something equivalent to actually measure those numbers. Since only subjective answers are possible if hard numbers are not first provided.
A UPS it typically made as cheap as possible. A life expectancy of maybe three years from its batteries is reasonable. That above 10 minute number will decrease significantly each year.
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[Craig Alan] “What I need is: cover brown outs and provide power when needed with the feature to power down the computer.
“You’ll need to test the software but from the times I’ve had similar installed, it’s worked about the same as holding down the ‘alt’ key while choosing shutdown from the Apple Menu. In theory it’s sending OS X a “shut it all down right now” message but in reality, if an app like FCPX is rendering, it will pause the shutdown and wait for user to confirm it’s ok to cancel the render.
In which case, the software will only be useful for an unattended shutdown if you’re using FCPX but not actively rendering. Otherwise, it’s just going to sit there with the dialog open until the power runs out and it crashes anyway.
And of course, FCPX is only one of along list of apps that will pause/cancel a shutdown if they think it will cause you to lose data.
I’ll be interested to hear what happens when you test it.
Jeff Kirkland | Video Producer | Southern Creative Media | Melbourne Australia
http://www.southerncreative.com.au | G+: https://gplus.to/jeffkirkland | Twitter: @jeffkirkland -
Yes that is my concern. You would think that if you used Apple’s shut down command in system preferences that it would be designed to proceed with the shut down.
I think the least risky way to test this is having word open with an unsaved document. See how it handles that.
I don’t usually loose any thing when the computer/system drive looses power or reboots from a crash. But connected raids is another matter.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[wes thom] “For example, many ‘know’ a pure sine wave is needed. Total bull. “
[wes thom] “And still so many want a pure sine wave only because emotion says it is necessary. “
What I have read, and I have no emotional need to buy one type or another, just want to get something that will help and be done with it, is that Active PFC power supplies play better with a pure sine wave power supply and iMacs use Active PFC power supplies.
Now you seem very knowledgable on the subject but so do the other dozen articles and opinions I’ve read on the subject. You’d think in the info age that there would be some objective and clear and consistent advice on a UPS that will work with a IMac and raid set up and what you get at a certain price point.
But I guess I’ll test the one I have from costco and see what happens when I pull the plug.
This would be easy to do if I plugged the UPS into a surge protector with an on off switch.
Which is another subject where opinion seems to differ. Some suggested that the surge protector would protect the UPS from going down from a surge and some manuals for the UPS say not to do it for what ever technical reason.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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> What I have read, and I have no emotional need to buy one type or another, just want to get something that will help and be done with it, is that Active PFC power supplies play better with a pure sine wave power supply and iMacs use Active PFC power supplies.
Only active Power Factor Correction (PFC) that is problematic well exceeds 99% PFC. Some early PFC circuits were that ‘active’, not required by code, and do not exist in most venues. Active PFC is not even required in North America. Most computers use passive PFC. In short, ‘active PFC’ fear is mostly just that – emotion created by people who only know what was heard. Also called speculation.
How active is PFC in your computer? What do specs say?
Surge protection is another example of emotion. Why are surge protect[b]or[/b] and surge protect[b]ion[/b] same? Words sound alike. So emotion says it must be same.
Protect[b]ion[/b] is where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Numbers separate speculation from reality. What does that UPS or adjacent protector do? UPS is emotionally declared as 100% protection. It says a protector circuit exists. Read its numbers. Hundreds of joules. Near zero protection is hyped as 100% protection (subjectively). The emotional only hear subjectively.
Protect[b]or[/b] is only a connecting device doing what a hardwire would do better.
What does a protector’s power switch do? Does a millimeters gap in an open switch stop what three miles of sky could not? Of course not. Does its hundreds or thousand joules protector circuit absorb surges that are hundreds of thousands of joules? Of course not. Most advise has no numbers. Because most only believe a first thing they are told – subjectively. And then get angry or defensive when reality exposes that myth.
A surge so tiny as to not harm electronics may also catastrophically damage a near zero joules protector. Undersizing increases sales. The emotion speculate, “My protector sacrificed itself to save my computer.” Total bull. A surge too tiny to damage anything else also destroys a near zero power strip protector. Reality is completely different once numbers are learned.
Your concern is a transient that can overwhelm protection in that computer … and all other household appliances. Again, that means hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed elsewhere. THE most important protection component is single point earth ground. Protectors are only connecting devices to what actually does protection. We have not yet discussed the ‘art’ of protection. But a power strip protector has no earth ground.
Many must see a magic box. Many assume a box does protection. Many ignore what they do not see – buried ground rods. But those rods (not a magic box) are critical. More numbers apply.
Surge protection is about a current not entering a house. Then all appliances are protected from direct lightning strikes. This solution (dissipating a surge outside via buried rods) is a well proven solution. Once inside, a surge goes hunting for earth ground destructively via appliances. Nothing inside (ie near zero power strip protector or UPS) can avert that hunt.
But it is called a surge protect[b]or[/b]. That proves it does surge protect[b]ion[/b]? Subjective reasoning is why emotions (not facts) are widely believed hearsay and speculation. No numbers is a first indication of junk science recommendations.
If active PFC is problematic, then one defines that problem with numbers. How active is the PFC? Fear is traceable to subjective recommendations – no numbers. Overwhelmingly, most PFC circuits are only ‘passive’ – not ‘active’. Only rare PFC circuits (often in Europe) have this problem.
Why would anyone spend so much for more expensive PFC. Then a UPS power supply with bad power factor subverts that correction. More numbers that question the need and resulting fears.
Your ‘unplug the UPS’ test is quite useful and recommended.
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I have an isobar 6 outlet surge protector. Rated at 2350 Joules.
Life time insurance against surge damage including lightning.
Of course there is a lot of fine print connected to this insurance.What you are saying is that it offers no protection against surges.
Is that correct?
So basically it just serves as a multi-outlet electrical strip.
Is there any harm in using it in order to easily unplug all connected devices so that I can easily shut down all if I’m leaving for any length of time and to run my test of the UPS? In other words using it as a multi-outlet.
So the actually best way to protect gear from a real surge is to have the electrical panel of the house or office properly grounded. Best done by a trustworthy electrician? I assume this has been done but could have it checked.
[wes thom] “Your ‘unplug the UPS’ test is quite useful and recommended.”
And what UPS would you recommend if any? Specifically for an iMac and several raids.
Other than testing it do you see any problems with the Cyberpower unit as shown above.
I do not buy things out of fear or emotion. Nor am I fully knowledgeable about the science behind most of the products that I use or buy. I chose the option on my new iMac for a AMD Radeon R9 M395X with 4GB video memory.
Do I know the science behind that graphic card giving better performance when using FCP X and other editing software? No. Do I trust that it will, given the recommendation from several professional editing sources including editors on this site? Yes.It was pretty easy to find well informed recommendations about this graphic card option. UPS units? No. And again you seem, knowledgable, but it’s not like I read your post and understand it now. And it’s filled with emotional rhetoric along with some useful information. I wouldn’t be asking if I bought the sales pitch.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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This seems like a lot of worrying about a very rare issue. If the power where you are is seriously unreliable and you often leave FCPX rendering you could take things a step further.
For example- kick off an IFTTT notification to your mobile device whenever the UPS tries to shutdown due to power loss. Then you run Team Viewer or similar VNC alowing you to remotely screen share and confirm the system is actually shutting down before the battery is exhausted.
That or never leave the system unattended when a render is going.
Noah
FCPWORKS – FCPX Workflow
FCP eXchange – FCPX Workshops -
Interesting. Thanks.
I usually wait for renders to finish. And can easily wait till I’m ready to work again.
the long period of unattended use is usually backups and copying media cards. The imports once copied are fairly fast. They now sell thunderbolt and USB 3 card readers for p2 so that should speed that up. Cloning my raids however is my biggest concern. There you are using both copies of my media and would hate both copies to go down. Again, the ups should handle brief interruptions and according to Pegasus the newest firmware prevents corruptions due to a power failure. I also have been running on a now aging 2011 iMac. This was first gen thunderbolt and although undocumented I really think it had problems with some external drives forcing a reboot.
At home I just got a brand new iMac, interested to see if this solves anything though I tested the most problematic drives, mercury dual pros, on another resent iMac and it was still forcing a reboot. Will be sending these raids back to owc under warranty once I get the media off them.
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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[Craig Alan] “What you are saying is that it offers no protection against surges.”
First, Isobar does claim to protect from a type of surge that is typically made irrelevant by protection already inside all appliances. Isobar (and equivalents) do something useful (supplementary) if a ‘whole house’ solution is also implemented. It does what it says it will do.
For example, spec number defines 2350 joules. That means it may absorb 780 joules and never more than 1580 joules. Protection is what specs define.
Phrase ‘no protection’ is subjective. A subjective conclusion (without facts and spec numbers) is illogical; is emotional. Either a conclusion is based in facts and perspective (ie numbers). Or that conclusion is based in emotion (ie speculation or absolutes). Isobar only does protection it says it does.
To be useful, a properly earthed ‘whole house’ solution also must exist.
Second, electrical panel must already be grounded – as required by codes for human protection. Panel can be grounded and still transistor protection may not exist. Since some wires obviously pass through without a low impedance connection to earth.
AC electric is three incoming wires – two hots and a neutral. Only neutral is hardwired to earth ground – for human protection. Transistor protection is compromised if any one wire does not connect low impedance to earth. Some wires that must connect to earth ground can only connect via a protector.
Effective protection is about how every incoming wire connects low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to earth.
Third, peripheral features such as total output power, alarms, and remote shutdown make a UPS unique. For example, a period of no output power exists when a UPS switches between AC electric and battery. This switchover time must be short enough so that a computer’s power supply can provide uninterrupted DC voltages when no AC incoming UPS power exists. This necessary functions (like so many others) is a UPS standard. IOW a UPS sells like a commodity. Standard functions (ie switchover time) exist in all.
Peripheral features (ie if it can shutdown a Mac, how many AC receptacles are provided, etc) makes that commodity unique (just like some apples are red and others are green).
Any UPS (a commodity) will do as long as its peripheral functions provide your unique requirements.
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[wes thom] “First, Isobar does claim to protect from a type of surge that is typically made irrelevant by protection already inside all appliances.”
1) And what type of surge is that?
2) Does it provide any surge protection that is relevant?
[wes thom] “spec number defines 2350 joules. That means it may absorb 780 joules and never more than 1580 joules. Protection is what specs define.”
The specs read: surge energy absorption : 2350.
1) Why then is it never more than 1580 joules?
2) And in what way, if any, are any of these amounts relevant to protecting an IMac or a Pegasus raid?Is there any disadvantage to plugging the UPS into a surge protector multi-outlet?
[wes thom] “Isobar only does protection it says it does.
“Tripp Lite says the Isobar “contains the strongest surges, including direct lightning strikes.” They also say it “protects equipment from damaging surges and eliminates interference between connected equipment.”
“Destructive surges can be hundreds of thousands of joules. …
Protectors are only connecting devices to what actually does protection. … Many ignore what they do not see – buried ground rods. But those rods (not a magic box) are critical. … Surge protection is about a current not entering a house. … This solution (dissipating a surge outside via buried rods) is a well proven solution. … Nothing inside (ie near zero power strip protector or UPS) can avert that hunt. … But it is called a surge protect[b]or[/b]. That proves it does surge protect[b]ion[/b]?”You didn’t actually use any numbers in this explanation nor was there any need to. You were being really clear. Ground rods protect the inside of the house from destructive surges. A power strip protector does not since it has no connection to ground rods.
Then in the last post your said:
“Panel can be grounded and still transistor protection may not exist. Since some wires obviously pass through without a low impedance connection to earth.
… Transistor protection is compromised if any one wire does not connect low impedance to earth. Some wires that must connect to earth ground can only connect via a protector.”What type of protector would that be?
Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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