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1080 60p renders: Blu-ray players et al. they can handle the format
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Broadcast devices will convert to NTSC for NTSC… but in fact, a modern television is technically ATSC, not NTSC. Now, that’s not exciting for 1080/60p use, since that’s not part of the ATSC specification. But 720/60p, 1080/30p, and 1080/24p actually are (no one uses these for broadcast, but they technically could). Though that’s only significant for television reception, not the connection between your video player and your display.
Old fashioned players pretty much did what you told them. You could (and probably still can) tell your DVD player to produce letterboxed video or not, to output 480i or 480p, or if you have an upconverting player, probably 1080i. That’s a one way thing… the player does the conversion YOU TELL IT, and that’s what you get.
Once we went to digital connections (HDMI it the one I’m thinking of, but DVI and DisplayPort do the same things), the display and the player can now agree upon a mutually supported display resolution. This isn’t new, either, it’s been true for at least the last half-decade (ok, to some, that’s new). Modern players do their conversions based on an HDMI resolution handshake — they don’t actually worry about either NTSC or ATSC. So if you connect your TM700 or PS3 or other fairly recent device to a fairly modern display, you probably have the option of 60p, maybe even 24p, as the actual data format over HDMI. It’s even possible you’ll have enhanced xvYCC color space… some camcorders support extended 8-bit color, and the HDMI specs allow for up to 16-bit color (some new televisions do support extended color, though you need a pro monitor for anything remotely approaching 16-bit color).
-Dave
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All versions of HDMI support various resolutions up to 1920×1200/60p (3.96 Gb/s). HDMI 1.3 added some higher bandwidth modes, including up to 2680×1600/60p, and the deep color options… various combinations up to 10.2 Gb/s. HDMI 1.4 added 4K resolutions: 3840×2160/24p/25p/30p and 4096×2160/24p.
In short — the TM700’s HDMI output is perfectly suited to the video it produces, and will play at 1080/60p on a suitable monitor or television, including both of my digital monitors and both of my digital televisions (one DLP, one LCD).
-Dave
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Honestly, when I shoot with the TM700, there’s a really good chance I’m going to match video from my HMC40. So in that, I have to shoot at 1080/60p to match 720/60p, I can leave it at 1080/60p to match 1080/60i, or go to 1080/24p for matching that.
Even when I don’t, the target is generally standard Blu-Ray, and maybe also internet video. I lived with non-standard video disc formats (VCD, SVCD) before DVD-R was out, and with non-standard HD disc formats (WMV/HD) before Blu-ray was out. I’m not really looking for any kind of distribution medium for this. Shooting in 1080/60p, I can at the very least decide later if I’d rather print to 720/60p or 1080/60i… or maybe I want 1080/60i for the disc, 720/30p for the internet, or some-such. It’s a nice option.
For simple play back… the camera works, via HDMI. I have converted to MPEG-4 ASP (I think it was) and got 1080/60p playing on the PS3… sometimes. Kind of quirky, and so I decided to wait for them to really support it. No idea if that’s been done. I know the device CAN support this, since it’s doing 3D Blu-ray today, which uses more video bandwidth and software crunch than 1080/60p.
Since I haven’t been looking for a player, my suggestion, which I already offered, it “livingroom PC”. There’s a huge hobby market out there in building PCs that replace your DVD player as a video rack component, and this is guaranteed to work.
The other recommendation: look for players listing AVCHD 2.0 on their spec list. They will play 1080/60p. As I said in an earlier post, I don’t know if any random player is going to be happy with an MP4 file. If this were important to me, I’d load up an SDHC card with a video videos: one in .mp4, one in the MPEG-2 transport stream format (.ts, .mts, .m2ts, all the same thing)… you already know every Blu-ray player understands that format. Then take another SDHC card, this time formatted with the AVCHD file system, and that same 1080/60p video. Could be what you shot on the TM700, or something you created from an edit using a tool like multiAVCHD to create the AVCHD structure. Then go shopping, look for AVCHD 2.0 labels, look for SDHC slots (most Panny BD players have them), and just see what works.
The TM700’s video is, after the fact, AVCHD 2.0 compliant. Sony and Panasonic set the standard based on what Panasonic did and Sony was then currently doing similarly on camcorders.
-Dave
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Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread over the past couple of days. I had some long-running questions that were answered with thorough replies.
Now that we’ve established that either DVI or an HDMI negotiated handshake may support 1080 60p, I wonder if a dedicated Set Top Box might be appropriate for this content? Obviously, it would depend upon the box’s output resolution. Any thoughts on this one?
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Gosh, how many years back does the word “newer” cover for you? My Philips TV is over three years old and it accepts 1080p60 just fine, both from HDMI and the YPbPr inputs. Displays it at 60p too (tested with a Quantum generator). When I was shopping for a TV back then plenty of models had this capability.
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[Dave Haynie] ” It’s even possible you’ll have enhanced xvYCC color space… some camcorders support extended 8-bit color, and the HDMI specs allow for up to 16-bit color “
I know you know otherwise but this sentence makes it sound like xvYCC and Deep Color are related or even the same thing. When you get them at all you often get them together, and the latter can make the former look better, but they are technically different and can be implemented independently.
(PS. Before you conclude I need a lesson in display technology you might want to look me up. No need for me to look you up, OTOH. To us past Amiga fans you are practically a legend. 🙂
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Carl,
I have Panny TM700 as well. What did you finally decide (or at this point) on for producing video? I also want to get the highest quality from my videos, but also want to get them over optical as well. I have a PS3, but would really like to get a dedicated Blu Ray player that can do 1080p/60p. If you don’t mind, where have you landed so far?
Thanks,
Chris
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OK, here’s something I found that will play 1080 60p mp4, and wmv.
D-link Boxee Box. Under $200 and it plays them back fine. It chokes on the native .mts files from our Pannys but Vegas encoded mp4 and wmv at 28 mbps vids play smooth. It even has wifi and streams HD from the net.I just connect a portable usb drive to it for the 1080 60p videos.
If you have a TM700 and want to play back 60p without noticable quality loss, check this out. Danny Hays -
Hi Danny. Thanks for the reply. That media player does look nice. I’ve also been looking at the blu ray players that support USB drives as well. My main goal is is really two things. Convert home movies to the highest quality that will play on a blu ray player AND on a DVD player. The focus is around ease of use for my family. The blu ray for home so my wife can just pop in the blu ray disk into the blu ray player. The DVD so I can give it to my parents and they can do the same in their DVD player. Right now I’m not worried about editing it with nice titles or anything…but I’m sure I’ll want that soon after finding the best solution for my need above. I admit…I’m a complete Noob at this point. Thanks for reading…
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There is no standard support for 1080/60p in any Blu-ray profile. However, the AVCHD 2.0 specification officially accepts 1080/60p pretty much just as implemented on the Panny TM700. I would of course test it anyway, but if you’re buying a new player, look for the AVCHD logo. Naturally, the network players like Boxee and Roku, while tapping the AVC decoder “organ bank” created by Blu-ray and cable/satellite STBs, do not follow specific media standards, so 1080/60o support is a growing thing there, too.
-Dave
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