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Final Cut -> Vegas
Forgive me, forumites, for I have sinned…
First off, I am a long time Vegas user — I believe I started at Version 2, but it was definitely pre-Sony days. It was my first professional level NLE. The last version that I was using was version 5.
About six months ago in a moment of weakness, I succumbed to Apple’s marketing machine and purchased an iMac along with Final Cut Express HD. While there are things I like about it, it definitely have struggled with the interface — doing trivial things ala the Ken Burns effect in Vegas take seconds, where in FCE you have to fight your way through them. I mistakenly believed the salesman when he said that FCE was, in many ways, superior to FCP. I was foolish for believing him. Hint to others: it isn’t.
I have now realized that an iMac is extremely limited — no real upgrade possibilities to speak of. I have also realized that there IS a difference between Final Cut Express and FCP. I have also realized that the difference in price is HUGE.
So, I am pondering the switch back to the PC. But before I do, I wanted to get some opinions of users on this board. The PC that I still have is a P4 2Ghz, with 1GB RAM, although I could easily go out and buy a new system for about $700-$800 that would leapfrog what I have now. One of the things that is driving me is the upgrade to Vegas that expires at the end of October.
I use the system for normal home stuff, including some HD editing, and some short films — mostly just for fun.
Advice here? Should I stick it out with the Mac, or succumb to the easier system to use, which is Vegas and the PC?
Thanks.
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9 Replies
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That’s an easy question.
1) Purchase a current dual-core computer. The fastest badest
one that I could afford.2) Vegas Pro-8 baby.
3) Then when I had some more dough, start adding some neat
plugins.Regards, Rick.
Rick Mac
Director of Audio Production
TCT Network – Directv 377 -
I have been using Vegas since V3. Switched from Premier. Took a while to get used to it, but now I love it and I think it is the most advanced NLE for the following reason:
It is based on a Drag, Cut and Paste principle as opposed to the OLDER NLEs (FCP, Premier,etc). which are based on the capturing from tape and carefully marking In and Out points and the carefully inserting it onto the timeline.
With Vegas I operate on cutting film metaphore. I Cut, Glue, Shorten, Lengthen the “FILM” all on the timeline. Plus of course do transitions, title etc. on the timeline.
I am going to try FCP because some projects I got that was edited on FCP. So I bought a intel MacPro on Ebay ($1200, Dual 2 Mhz, 2 Gb memory). I also added BOOTCAMP and with Windows Vista I can run Vegas 7&8 on the same computer. I also have a dual Intel 3.2 Mhz desktop and Vegas runs faster on the MacPro than on the desktop.
But, I will stick with Vegas except for special projects.
JK
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[John Kert] “It is based on a Drag, Cut and Paste principle as opposed to the OLDER NLEs (FCP, Premier,etc). which are based on the capturing from tape and carefully marking In and Out points and the carefully inserting it onto the timeline.”
And it would have killed them to have allowed this functionality for older editors? I think this editor would stand a chance in the broadcast world if it had the trimming and src/record functionality of its competitors. Both of them lack decent audio toolsets, avid more so than fcp.
[John Kert] “With Vegas I operate on cutting film metaphore. I Cut, Glue, Shorten, Lengthen the “FILM” all on the timeline. Plus of course do transitions, title etc. on the timeline.”
I LIKE the vegas timeline functionality A LOT (handles to drag fades, ctl-drag to change speed, alt-drag to slip-trim etc). But when I have cut my :30 of glory, with fx, music, sync, vo etc all nicely balanced on the timeline and need to replace ONE shot… how nice would it be to line the sync point in the trimmer and the timeline – then overwrite a clip. Is this possible in vegas?
Or do I need to drag and drop it onto a new video track, line it up for sync, trim its in point, trim its out point then drag it down onto the shot that needs replacing?
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Thanks. Yeah, that is the big difference for me — Vegas seems so intuitive (probably has something to do with the interface that I grew up with). You don’t have to mark in and out points, you just put something on the timeline and deal with it there. Transitions are easy. Keyframing is easy.
Okay, so I upgraded to Version 8 this morning. Now if I can just find someone to buy my iMac… that is turning out to be a bit of a challenge.
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Talk about preaching to the converted!
V8 would run on your system but you’d probably want to get something faster. Even budget systems are faster these days so it’s not a great struggle to upgrade.
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Trevor, yes Vegas needs an overwrite and insert feature, it’s true, but you’re probably giving the one example where Takes actually addresses the problem. Since you’re just talking about replacing a clip you can right-drag from the trimmer over the existing clip and then choose “add as takes”.
Your manual overwrite method is a little different from what I’ve done, which is to select the region I want to overwrite, split it, delete it, select the durration from the timeline display, and then paste the duration into the trimmer display. You approach is simpler but it adds another track, which is inelegant.
Both are awkward and would be solved by a proper 3-point edit, even if there was no overwrite feature. The overlay would work (except that you might actually want the underlying clip to be split, in which case overwrite does the splitting.
Rob Mack
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[rob mack] “Trevor, yes Vegas needs an overwrite and insert feature, it’s true”
OK – now where do Vegas feature requests go?[rob mack] “you’re probably giving the one example where Takes actually addresses the problem. Since you’re just talking about replacing a clip you can right-drag from the trimmer over the existing clip and then choose “add as takes”.”
but it’s not really a 4 point edit is it? (i.e. In and out on timeline and nowline on timeline = nowline on clip). Presumably I then have slip the alternate take to get the new clip in the right place?
[rob mack] ” You approach is simpler but it adds another track, which is inelegant.
I find that I work with extra tracks all the time in other edit systems. Typically I’ll be doing my rough cut on V2, tighten everything up then drop it down onto V1. That way I can look at the top V track and know where I’m still not happy with the timeline.
[rob mack] “Both are awkward and would be solved by a proper 3-point edit, even if there was no overwrite feature. The overlay would work (except that you might actually want the underlying clip to be split, in which case overwrite does the splitting.”
Thanks Rob, didn’t think I was asking for too much!
Funnily enough I was in a dept. store yesterday (buying a coffee machine, naturally) and found myself by the big Sony “HD editing” computer. Unfortunately they seem to think that Premier Pro is the HD editing tool for the masses. I guess it keeps their tech support signal to noise ratio down, but surely it makes sense to ensure that Vegas makes it onto their demo machines somewhere. Especially as running PP resulted in BSOD!
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[rob mack] “you’re probably giving the one example where Takes actually addresses the problem. Since you’re just talking about replacing a clip you can right-drag from the trimmer over the existing clip and then choose “add as takes”.”
but it’s not really a 4 point edit is it? (i.e. In and out on timeline and nowline on timeline = nowline on clip). Presumably I then have slip the alternate take to get the new clip in the right place?
I assume once you have multiple takes, you cycle them with ‘T’?
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The common narrative around the fora is that the Sony computer division has had a long standing deal with adobe for Premiere Pro. Yeah, all the Vegas users think that’s ridiculous, hence the ridicule.
Adding as a take gives you the equivalent of a three point edit but it’s the rare instance where you can pick two points on the timeline and one on the trimmer. Usually Vegas just can’t do that variation of a 3-point edit — you can select two on the trimmer and one on the timeline, but not two on the timeline and one on the trimmer, unless you first do a split when you select the two on the timeline and then you’re back to using takes. That’s not horrible but it’s an extra step or two and it’s not obvious to new users and even harder for old users of other systems because their thinking is not very plastic.
Adding as a take does allow you to pick a start point in the trimmer as accurately as you would ever do, and then drag it over the existing clip. It’s just as accurate as an overwrite mode would be, and if you decide you were a little off you can slip or slide the take. It’s not much different from any other system except that you have to manually cut out the spot where the new clip goes, and you’re better off adding as a take even if that wasn’t what you thought you needed.
There is a feature request page on the Sony site: https://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/support/productsuggestion.asp. It’s much more preferable to use that than it is to wail in the wilderness here.
As far as working on a scratch track, that’s fine, lots of people work that way. I’m calling it inelegant because Vegas tends to create new tracks so promiscuously. You can really end up with a lot of tracks scattered about. There are workflows where the trimmer is very compelling, and it does make for a neater timeline.
I don’t think you’re asking too much. Vegas has a very fluid workflow that is really nice compared to some other systems, but not having proper 3-point edit, overwrite, and insert features thwarts prospective users coming from other systems. That’s bad design. The better scheme is to thwart their return to the other system.
This is hijacking the thread though. Huff brings up one of the main reasons our shop moved away from Apple platforms, which was that we didn’t have many hardware choices.
Rob
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Right. And that can get confusing because you probably have multiple audio takes too.
It’s not always ideal but it can be made to work. It’d be better if there was also an overwrite mode so you could have a choice and cut down on the number of clicks it takes to do this manually.
Rob
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