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Convert NTSC to PAL in Compressor
All the threads on this are really old and not relevant to me.
This week I will be shooting some interviews in NYC. Client is based in US and Europe. We are shooting in HD, but not sure if I will need to upload to their Paris FTP as HD or SD clips.
I have been playing with converting some existing interview footage in Compressor, and contrary to what I have read, results look fine. So I have a few basic questions:
1> If I set all my field options and rate conversion options to better or best, make sure output is 25fps, does that give me a true PAL file? In HD frame size is the same, in SD I need to set to PAL size (720×576). Files seem to playback and look fine, but are they really PAL Files? Also is PAL 25fps or 24.98(I have seen this number around, but it is not a setting on any of my software as a default, only if I manually override) If they want footage in HD, I was going to send an XDCAM EX .mov file, as this is a preset at 50i, I just need to make sure frames are set to 25 for output, again, looks as good as original. SD I would probably send an IMX .mov file, or H.264 (Not sure if I have ever tried it, but does standard H.264 work well for HD sizes?)
2> Since it is just interviews, would I be better off shooting in 720 30p or 24p and converting that?
3>Is there anyone working in PAL to whom I could send a clip to check, or is that unnecessary as long as all output is set correctly?
I know there are conversion software packages out there, but I don’t get asked to do this often (this is the first time since digital age took hold) so I don’t really want to invest for just one job, profit margin is not there. Processing time does not seem bad on my system.
Thanks in advance for all the help I always get,
RichRich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
https://kaelinmotion.com
New York -
11 Replies
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Strictly speaking, PAL is the way that the colour subcarrier is used in a composite video signal (as is NTSC and SECAM) so it’s not precisely meaningful when your talking about a digital file – it becomes PAL when you have an analogue output to, for example, a tv screen. But that is being excessively pedantic.
25fps is right, as is 720 x 576 (with the appropriate pixel aspect ratio selected).
I’d really recommend proper standards conversion software (e.g., Nattress) but I’d agree that Compressor can look fine when you use the best setting, depending upon what movement there is in the shots (straight interviews wouldn’t have much that would cause a problem) and where it’s ultimately going to end up (it might be questioned if it had a technical check at a major broadcaster).
I’ve delivered material as IMX and it was fine but you must check the field order in Compressor, don’t trust auto. H264 works for HD as well as SD, but remember that it is really only suitable for final delivery and not where any further work, e.g., editing, is likely to happen.
My gut feeling is that converting 30fps to 25fps would probably give a smoother result than going 24fps to 25fps, but is shooting 25fps out of the question?
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Yes, I did realize that true PAL only comes into play when outputting to analog. It is all digital upload to an FTP at my end, so I think I am fine.
Proper field order for PAL is Top (upper)?
Do you think progressive may be better than interlaced.
They will be doing editing of the interviews, so I was going to avoid H.264 anyway, either IMX or XDCAM, if they’ll accept that, if not, I need to get a list of codecs they will accept. These are straight, head shot, seated interviews, so I don’t think motion will be an issue.
All my tests today at 720×576 read in FCP as PAL pixel ratio, so I guess I am good to go. When I drop into sequence and let it choose sequence settings, I get what appears to be a PAL timeline. And I found a converter online that seems to work well, if I decide not to go with Compressor. Truthfully, they look identical. I guess I was correct about HD, same image sizes, square pixels? (1920×1080) Just different frame rate.
Thanks for the feedback,
RichRich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
https://kaelinmotion.com
New York -
PAL is 720 x 576 25fps Upper field for ALL codecs except DV. So avoid DV (for many reasons).
Curious to know – what was the online converter?
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It is JES Deinterlacer, see: https://www.xs4all.nl/~jeschot/home.html
I used this to convert a SD IMX clip recorded with my nanoFlash a few weeks back. It did all the work with just a few clicks, and looked fine.
There is also a program (stand-alone, as is JES) called “Reframe”, which I did not download. I downloaded the demo of Nattress, but results look identical, at least on this interview footage, to JES. Both look look pretty much the same as Compressor with best settings, so I may use Compressor just so I can set up a batch and walk away. Nattress is many steps, for what I can see is no visible improvement. JES is super simple and looks great, compressor just needs some settings tweaked and it seems to work fine as well. I do not know if JES does high def (just haven’t tried yet), but that is less of an issue as it is an adjustment to frame rate and Compressor really does look fine. Of course, I can only view in Quicktime player, but on dual monitor I loaded an HD XDCAM EX original clip and the converted clip side by side and no one here could pick the original; on interviews, with little motion, the frame rate is not a noticeable change in quality.Rich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
https://kaelinmotion.com
New York -
[Rich Kaelin] “Of course, I can only view in Quicktime player, but on dual monitor I loaded an HD XDCAM EX original clip and the converted clip side by side and no one here could pick the original; on interviews, with little motion, the frame rate is not a noticeable change in quality.”
You got two problems that you detail above:
1) QT Player doesn’t play at speed, so it’s not reliable for judging video.
2) You can’t reliably judge fields and/or standards conversions on computer monitors. If you know what you’re looking for you can step through video frame by frame on a computer monitor and possibly see if you have any field or frame errors, but playing video at speed on a computer monitor will typically either hide errors that are there, or reveal errors which really aren’t there.
If you don’t have an I/O device and an honest to goodness video monitor, your only choice is to make a DVD and view that on a set top player connected to a TV.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Colorist
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles
https://www.drwfilms.comPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Business & Marketing and Apple Final Cut Pro forums. Formerly host of the Apple Final Cut Basics, Indie Film & Documentary, and Film History & Appreciations forums.
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Okay, I sort of figured that about QTP and monitors. I do have a DVD player that should play PAL, but have never tried it. I don’t have any PAL monitors (that I am aware of, I have to check my 14 inch SONY, it is an SD mon with many selections for SDI, etc, so maybe, but I doubt it. Now, my Mac monitors are HD cinema monitors, with DVI and HDMI inputs, so they do actually qualify as fairly high end HD TV’s, but I doubt that matters. And I have Bluray…can I burn XDCAM files to Bluray and will the bluray players detect and output properly, and/or will the bluray play a PAL DVD and output properly? I have never had any issues with anything I send out, but since the digital revolution and tapeless acquisition I have not upgraded to an IO device (I have been considering the AJA and the Matrox solutions) I hesitate to do this because I look at about $300k worth of SD gear that is gathering dust every day, and see that everything is moving away from media to digital. Bluray was practically born DOA, as you can create AVC files that are a fraction of the size, look just as good, and can be played from a thumb drive (and hence downloaded and distributed with no media)
Any additional thoughts, especially on IO?
Thanks.Rich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
https://kaelinmotion.com
New York -
Most modern monitors and DVD players are auto switching and should play PAL. The monitor should auto switch to PAL as well.
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Greetings from PAL-land Finland!
Things are SO much simplier here compared to NTSC…
OK, Rich, are you sure Your camera can´t shoot 25fps natively?
If it is XDCAM EX, it should be able to operate ANY frame rate, so use it! Then again You can face a flicker problem if You use lights on set, they are 60 hertz and your camera is now 50/25 hertz.
Since XDCAM-EX is hd-only camera I recommend to shoot 720p50 if delivery is on pal 50i and use Compressor to create fields, it makes a really nice job.
Then again if delivery is pal 25p, shoot 720p25 and use Compressor just for downscaling and re-sampling image to desired format (ProRess, Un-Compressed, DV-Cam…) .You should ask the client what they want BEFORE You do any decisions!!
-Do they want HD or SD?
-Interlaced or Progressive?
-If SD, do they want 4/3 or 16/9?By the way, here in Europe 16/9 sd is ALWAYS anamorphic, newer letterbox.
I will be happy to try to find answer for You so feel free to ask!
“By doing it yourself you get exactly as it happens to outcome.”
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Thank you Petteri. I just confirmed shoot is now next week, but contact does not have full details on format yet. If it is something not already covered, I will check back. Thank you all so much.
RichRich Kaelin
Kaelin Motion Production Services
https://kaelinmotion.com
New York -
hi,
i’m sorry i am not an expert in fcp yet. i read about your short description of converting from pal to ntsc. i’m sure following the same path could do the opposite.
please tell me. where do you start?
straight in DVD Studio Pro?
is there anything to do before that in fcp?
please give me a little more detail whenever you get the time.thanks
alamgir borishal
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