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ProRes Question – Best Post Workflow for H.264 from Canon 7D
If anyone really understands how to do this, your help would be greatly appreciated.
I have a bunch of H.264 Canon 7D footage I will be cutting soon for a feature film. I have a MacBook Pro 2.4 GHz Core 2 Duo running Snow Leopard and Final Cut Pro 6. The footage is on a G-Raid connected via FW 800.
My plan is to sync the H.264 video and audio clips and keep each synced clip in individual sequences. Then I’d select all the synced Sequences, click Export using Compressor…and in Compressor I was going to use the ProRes codec found under “Other Workflows > Apple Codecs > Apple ProRes 422 for Progressive Material”. The Non-HQ one.
My question is…is this the best way to prep H.264/7D Footage for editing?
I did a test of this workflow and it took 30 minutes to encode a 1.5 GB/4 Minute clip into ProRes, and the final file ended up being 4 GB. Does it normally take this long? I have about 305 GB to convert, so I want to know if this is the fastest way to do it.
I’ve heard some people say they do the export in Final Cut directly, where some other people say you must do it in Compressor for highest quality. Does this make a difference in terms of quality or encoding speed? Most people seem to have said the HQ version of the codec is unnecessary, because of the low 46 Mb/s Data rate for 7D H.264.
Can anyone who really understands the tech involved, describe the best 7D post workflow? Also, why is it necessary to convert all the footage to ProRes upfront, instead of editing in H.264 and then converting the final film to ProRes for Color Grading and distribution?
Thanks a lot!
Trevor
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20 Replies
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“My plan is to sync the H.264 video and audio clips and keep each synced clip in individual sequences.”
Wrong. Stop. Do not work with H.264. Do not sync the audio to this. Convert the H.264 media to ProRes, sync to that with your clap strike, and use the merge clip function. That’s my suggestion anyway.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP7,” “Basic Training for FCS” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop” -
Hey Tom,
Can you clarify…Why should I not work with H.264 at all?
I am using pluraleyes to handle syncing…its a third party application that automatically matches scratch audio with audio recorded on a separate recorder, so I don’t need to sync manually with the clapper.
But regardless, manual syncing or not, what difference does it make if I sync the video/audio first and then do prores or do prores and then sync?
And in regards to my initial question…is that the correct codec to use and best way to handle the workflow? Export to compressor from Final Cut, and use the ProRes 422 for Progressive Material codec? Or can I just do the conversion in Final Cut itself? And does it normally take 30 minutes to do a 1.5 GB clip?
Thanks!
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A simple search will lead you to the fact that h.264 is not an editing codec.
There are plenty of 7D workflows available.
Steve Eisen
Eisen Video Productions
Vice President
Chicago Final Cut Pro Users Group -
Exporting to Compressor from inside FCP is an extremely slow process. There are many reasons to not use H.264 and as Steve said they have been discussed often. Using Compressor directly as a batch converter, bypassing FCP completely in the conversion process, will be quite a bit quicker. Your way does have the advantage of creating complete QT files. I don’t know what your whole workflow and delivery process is, so that might be better for you. I wouldn’t do it that way.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP7,” “Basic Training for FCS” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop” -
Steve, my follow-up question to Tom was why shouldn’t I do the syncing before I convert to ProRes to edit. Some people have said I should sync before I convert, and others say I should convert before I sync. So I am asking why you would do one or the other, because a lot of people seem to say things like “h.264 is not an editing codec” without any explanation.
I have done a lot of searching on this topic and all I can dig up are short answers with little detail or clarification as to why people are doing what they do.
I understand I need to convert to ProRes…but there are many different ProRes codecs in Final Cut and in Compressor. So I described the one I was going to use, which is “ProRes 422 for Progressive Material”, to see if that was the right one. And I wanted to know if it was normal that it took 30 minutes for a 1.5GB clip. I haven’t found a thread where someone who’s clearly done this and knows what they’re talking about has described the workflow in detail, regarding whether you should definitely use Compressor to do the conversion and why, whether it matters when you do the syncing, how long it takes to do the conversion, etc.
Could you possibly clarify or maybe point me in the direction of a thread that really describes what to do step by step? Thanks.
-Trevor
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Oh interesting…so it actually takes longer for it to compress if its inside Final Cut. I suppose if it would take significantly less time, one thing I could try is to convert all the clips to ProRes first in compressor, without FCP. Then import all the ProRes clips into FCP, sync each clip with its audio in its own sequence. The question is…I haven’t done the merge clip function before, is there a way to do a batch process where all the sequences can be made into clips…or do they have to be recompressed or something.
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If you use the merge clip function you don’t have to sync in the timeline, assuming this was properly shot with clapperboards or some sync mechanism, and you don’t have to manually lip sync.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP7,” “Basic Training for FCS” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop” -
Tom,
The OP uses Plural Eyes to sync. Nature of the beast to do it in a timeline..Bouke
https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s -
I’ll have a swing at this:
[Trevor Fernando] “My question is…is this the best way to prep H.264/7D Footage for editing? “
There is no best way. There are several ways, you decide what’s best for YOU.
[Trevor Fernando] “I did a test of this workflow and it took 30 minutes to encode a 1.5 GB/4 Minute clip into ProRes, and the final file ended up being 4 GB. Does it normally take this long? I have about 305 GB to convert, so I want to know if this is the fastest way to do it. “
I just ran a test on an old quad.
Using just a QT pro export, takes slightly more than 3 times the duration to transcode.
But, the machine still runs about 50% idle. Thus if you have an application that is smart enough to max out the CPU power you should be able to double that speed.
Experiment a little.
You can always export your synced clips as QT refs to feed them to another transcoder.As for file sizes, if that bothers you, you could also transcode to XDcamHD. Will get you about the same file size as the H264. After you’re done, you could always relink to the originals and transcode again to any other codec you like.
Same goes for the H264. If you start editing without much effect work, you could start out working with the originals and transcode just the rough edit when you get to the heavy work.
H 264 ‘ not an editing codec’ just goes for the heavy work. For plain editorial making choices, it is just fine.
Again, toy with it. If it’s workable for you, no need to transcode everything before starting the edit.
(Why spoil horsepower on long takes that never will be used anyway?)For syncing before or after the transcoding, i don’t think it will make a difference.
Now one thing i do think is important, get timecode!
If you export from FCP timelines, all clips end up with the same timecode. Not handy for dupe detection / organizing your files.
You can download “qtChange’ from my site and batch add TC to the originals, but i’m not sure how that will work during transcoding after you synced. So i would first add TC, then transcode (or don’t transcode), then sync.
You end up with unique clips that are easier to organize.hth,
Bouke
https://www.videotoolshed.com/
smart tools for video pro’s -
I didn’t realize he wasn’t using a standard sync operation.
All the best,
Tom
Class on Demand DVDs “Complete Training for FCP7,” “Basic Training for FCS” and “Final Cut Express Made Easy”
Author: “Final Cut Pro 5 Editing Essentials” and “Final Cut Express 4 Editing Workshop”
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