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Online with mixed formats
Hi All-
I have finished working on a 90 minute documentary and am readying the cut for grading and other aspects of the finishing process. There are a number of formats used – HDV, Cineform, Beta, Varicam, etc.. About 80 percent of the film is Varicam. I will need to recapture the Varicam in an online format (ProRes HQ), but will not be recapturing the other formats.
My question is how do I recapture only the used parts of the Varicam while not going through the same process for the other formats? When I use Media Manager to create an offline sequence, using only the portions of the clips used (plus handles), I am unable to reconnect my “other” formats – MM adds a number to each offline clip to make them unique. It seems as though this would be a common problem in documentaries where multiple formats are used.Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
Zack
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10 Replies
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Varicam is DVCPRO HD…why would you capture that as ProRes? You won’t gain any quality over what you have as DVCPRO HD. Did you capture it as DVCPRO HD?
THis is a very common issue for post…and one that I make a living knowing how to deal with… such as dealing with this:
https://lfhd.net/2009/11/05/speaking-of-mixing-formats/
So I won’t give many tips…sorry.
But to ONLY recapture one format, you need to duplicate your sequence, then remove every OTHER format, then media manage using the MAKE OFFLINE option. Recapture those clips, and then bring them back into the main sequence.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Hi Shane.
Thanks so much for your comments and link.
You are right in that I brought the footage in as DVCPro HD. The point where I am concerned is in the color grading. For economical reasons, we will either be bringing in an HDCam tape or a single QuickTime file. If it is a file we bring in, it will be ProRes HQ. Would I gain any quality or keep from losing quality by going online with prores first?Thanks,
Zack
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What platform are you grading on? The grading system may not accept Prores or DVCPro HD.
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
https://www.arniepix.com/ -
Now I’m lost. Why would you only capture one format to ProRes, and not HDV and upconvert the beta (via hardware)…and convert the Cineform? I mean, you want to deliver a ProRes file, so why would you only convert one format to ProRes? And if you are going out to tape…
Well, I don’t want to go into details…again, this is how I keep myself hireable.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
I agree with Shane. It makes no sense to convert your main format to ProRes but not any of the other minor formats. Better to either convert the minor formats to DVCPro HD or to convert everything to ProRes. Especially the HDV and the SD material.
Arnie
Post production is not an afterthought!
https://www.arniepix.com/ -
Arnie and Shane-
First, thank you both for your attention on this.
Shane: Now I’m lost. Why would you only capture one format to ProRes, and not HDV and upconvert the beta (via hardware)…and convert the Cineform? I mean, you want to deliver a ProRes file, so why would you only convert one format to ProRes? And if you are going out to tape…
I will be upconverting the Beta footage, but the formats that I will probably not transcode to my online format are the HDV, Cineform and P2. Since these clips exist only in a digital form for us, they are already “master” formats. My thinking behind this is that since I will be outputting to tape or a single QuickTime file, why introduce another generation of compression to the clips before I output? If the grading were going to be done in Color and the individual clips were going to be graded, then converting the whole timeline to ProRes would be the way to go. However, since the entire timeline will be output, either to HDCam or a single file, then the there is not really a need for a single format timeline.
In answer to Arnie’s question about what grading platform we are using, it is still up in the air, though the grading house (they have both Lustre and DaVinci) said that ProRes or Uncompressed would be an acceptable codec. This is what I am basing my codec decision on.
After having though about this over night, I think that Shane’s recommendation – or at least a variation on it, is the way to go. I will create and offline sequence in MM, deleting unused media, and recapture the Varicam in ProRes (and the BetaSP). I will lay in the clips of other formats in manually from my original timeline. This seems like the best solution, given that there is no perfect work-flow to this situation.
Best,
Zack
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[Zack Braff] “I will be upconverting the Beta footage”
Ah…OK.
[Zack Braff] “the formats that I will probably not transcode to my online format are the HDV, Cineform and P2. Since these clips exist only in a digital form for us, they are already “master” formats. “
As is DVCPRO HD from the Varicam…FYI. P2 DVCPRO HD…and Varicam DVCPRO HD… they both are already at full resolution. So I think converting Varicam to ProRes is adding a layer of compression you don’t need. If your sequence setting is ProRes, and you render everything to that (except the beta, which you will upconvert) and then export your movie, or output to tape…you are golden.
[Zack Braff] “My thinking behind this is that since I will be outputting to tape or a single QuickTime file, why introduce another generation of compression to the clips before I output?”
Exactly…so why do that with Varicam too?
[Zack Braff] “since the entire timeline will be output, either to HDCam or a single file, then the there is not really a need for a single format timeline. “
Well…yeah, you will. That is how FCP works. The sequence settings are that single format. FCP doesn’t see ProRes as ProREs,and DVCPRO HD as DVCPRO HD, and Uncompressed as Uncompressed when they are in a timeline. Everything gets converted to that timeline setting…thus the render bars above your footage. SO when you render, everything then gets rendered to that single format. And when you output to a QT file…that will all be ProRes. Output to tape, then everything was converted to ProRes, then output to HDCAM. Nothing retains it’s native format, unless the sequence matches that format.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Hi Shane-
Thanks for posting on your Sunday.
I understand about clips not matching the sequence settings needing to render. Also, what you are saying about the Varicam footage not gaining any quality by being re-digitized as ProRes via SDI makes sense. My one question at this point is the quality of conversion to ProRes. On one hand I could have my sequence set to ProRes and just render my Varicam DVCProHD clips. On the other hand, I could have my Kona 3 convert to footage to ProRes. Is there any quality differences between the two methods of conversion?
Your arguments are swaying me towards not re-capturing the Varicam as ProRes. However, this question as to what is best – software or hardware conversion, keeps niggling at me.
Zack
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Well, I think that hardware capture would yield better quality than transcoding. So yeah, recapture what you can. Transcode the rest.
I told you more than I wanted to. Sly dog.
LOL. -
OK, Shane.
That puts me back on the Varicam re-digitizing.
Thanks for your input!Best,
Zack
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