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P2 vs Quicktime
I used Shane’s Log & Transfer tutorial to learn how to bring footage organized as P2 into FCP from a Firestore drive. (Thanks Shane!) I also add the extra step of copying all the data from the Firestore to a firewire drive for backup before taking it into FCP.
Here’s my question: Can Log & Transfer be done if we record “pure” Quicktime files on the Firestore, rather than P2? More to the point — can I Log & Transfer Quicktime video as shots defined by camera start-stop if I don’t “Organize by P2”? (We’re shooting DVCPRO HD with an HDX 900.)
The reason I ask this is that I’ve had failures on two occasions with my workflow. I was able to recover but it was time-consuming. A nice guy in Focus Enhancements tech support advised recording as Quicktime, rather than P2, because he says P2 files can be problematic with drag-and-drop functions such as when I back up my video data to the firewire drive.
Has anyone here had success with importing Quicktime (not P2) files to FCP from a Firestore drive — and have the data come in as individual shots? If so, any advice on your workflow would be appreciated.
— Ron
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11 Replies
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[Ron Craig] “Can Log & Transfer be done if we record “pure” Quicktime files on the Firestore, rather than P2?”
LOG and TRANSFER would no longer be needed at this point. They are already QT files, just copy them to your media drive and then FILE>IMPORT or drag and drop into a bin.
[Ron Craig] “can I Log & Transfer Quicktime video as shots defined by camera start-stop if I don’t “Organize by P2″?”
If you recorded as QT files, a new QT would be made each time you start and stop the camera. Now…the question I have is if you do this method, you still have the FAT32 format to deal with, so any QT movie over 4GB will be broken into multiple parts…so you might have 3 QTs that are tied…and you only import the one. Not sure.
Word of warning. If you record as QT files you are tied to using FCP to edit. No working on Avid or other NLE…no giving them your QT files…unless they pay for a DVCPRO HD decoder.
Shane
GETTING ORGANIZED WITH FINAL CUT PRO DVD…don’t miss it.
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def -
Thanks, Shane. You have hit on my main concern, which is exceeding a file size limit when shooting Quicktime. The first time I tried a Firestore it broke up long shots (e.g. interviews) into 1.8 gig files, thus requiring re-assembly inside FCP. That’s when I went to your tutorial and learned how to get discreet files with P2.
The fellow at Focus Enhancements responded to my question about this by writing, “The FS-100 (Firestore) has a function called ‘Make Ref MOV’ which strings your Quicktime files together in the FCP timeline and makes them look like one long clip, no organization required.”
That sounds like what I need so I’m going to read up on it and run a test today or tomorrow. I’m posting here to see if anyone has experience doing this, and perhaps some words of wisdom. (I’ll be working exclusively in FCP and After Effects.)
–Ron
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Never use the REF movies to edit with, if you move or rename the folders the link can be broken and then it is hell to fix it.
What I do, Do the Make Ref. Movie on the firestore.
Copy all the content from the FS to your Hard Drive. Open the Ref files in QT Player, do a save as and make Self Contained.This does 2 things, gives you the solid QT movie that you are looking for with having to rely on the linking back to all the other small files. Then for an added bonus you now have a extra backup of your files, you don’t edit with your master clips.
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Thanks Michael. OK, now I’m seeing how this works. However, in a single day we might shoot 200 shots. The thought of bringing them into Quicktime Player one-by-one and exporting them seems onerous. I see the benefits of your workflow, certainly, and I do definitely agree with making sure that I have a backup of all data.
Since you have experience with this, I have an additional question: Have you had problems with P2 files from Firestore that cause you to avoid organizing by P2 — and using straight Quicktime instead? I’m trying to decide whether the two problems I have had with Firestore were operator error — e.g. unplugging when the camera and Firestore were not powered down, which Focus Enhancements advises against — or something else. I am mindful of the tech support admonition that P2 files, according to him, can have drag-and-drop problems. But if I can work with P2 successfully I would like to stay with that workflow.
But I’d appreciate your thoughts about this and about why you (apparently) don’t use P2.
Thanks.
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Before, I would just copy the Quicktime files to the a local hard drive, and throw all of the files onto a sequence timeline. And copy and paste clips from that timeline to the one I’m editing on. That works pretty well, until you try to work with other editors who’ve never worked with files from a Firestore before.
The workflow I try to get into now is to come back after a shoot:
Hook up the Firestore to the Mac
Open up final cut
Import the files off the Firestore.
Throw them on the timeline
Render the timeline as a completely new quicktime to one of the local mac drives.
Use that file as the source file from now on.
So far, this has been working well for me.I must make sure that the Firestore’s actually rolling each time I start the camera, sometimes that firewire cable gets bumped/yanked/knocked loose from the camera. You’ll usually notice this happening after the shot you needed gets missed. But hopefully you’re still recording to P2 card at the same time, just in case. That’s if you haven’t recorded beyond the P2 cards capacity.
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The ref movie method, saves several steps plus it retains the time code from the original clips.
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Hi again Michael,
Not to be argumentative but I don’t see how shooting Quicktime on the Firestore saves several steps over using P2. My only reason for NOT wanting to shoot QT is that, by my estimation anyway, shooting P2 saves several steps. For example, not having to open 200 clips inside Quicktime Player and export them individually, which you suggest as a workflow. That’s a perfectly acceptable workflow if you have the time and I agree that it does just what you want. But it’s a lot of “steps.”
And your post seemed to imply that P2 doesn’t retain timecode data. It does.
Cheers,
Ron
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Well, if you’re using P2 as designed, and have enough cards and the right size cards, and all the P2 accessories to hook into the mac, staying P2 is great.
But, we’re cheap over here. I’ve got an HVX200 with a 16 gb card and 32 gb card, and an FS-100. Shooting 1080i60 eats the cards up pretty fast for the shoots I do. I don’t have time to off load the P2 cards and re-format when I fill them, and I don’t have an assistant/intern to do it. So I’m all FS-100 when I fill the P2 cards. If the drive fails I’m screwed for everything not on the cards, but that’s a risk I’m living with at the moment.
Once I get done with my shoot, I have to get all of the footage on RAID drive, and then into FCP. Logging is done by someone else with a proxy file I generate, but I have to keep all of the video on the drive. While copying the p2 data and “Logging and Transferring” via FCP is a cute and organized way to do it, it’s also an extra step, and it generates more files. I’m much happier just using the Quicktime files made by the FS-100, and I can edit right off the FS-100 via firewire if I have to, with no “Logging and Transferring” that you’d need to do if you’re all P2.
That’s the way I’m doing it. Like with all other ways there’s probably at least 3 other ways to go about it.
That all said, I’d love to get some more 64gb P2 cards. And I’d love it if they’d half/quarter in cost. Or maybe a Firestore that’s SSD and also has firewire 800/eSata. While I’m dreaming a free upgrade from the HVX200 to the HVX300 would be nice too. -
While I’m dreaming a free upgrade from the HVX200 to the HVX300 would be nice too.
Ha!
Thanks for the full report of your experience, Rocky. Sounds like things are fine with you shooting Quicktime rather than P2. I guess I’ll have to experiment with that approach. I tried it way back when we first started with FS100 and, frankly, didn’t really know how to use the unit. Organizing by P2 solved the issues I had with shooting just QT — mainly getting a bunch of 1.8 gig files that I had to edit and assemble in FCP.
I don’t yet know everything about the Make Ref Movie function — particularly how it organizes clips (especially long clips) and what steps are required to get beyond the Ref movies to make sure that I can edit with the real source files.
I like Log & Transfer because it lets me review material, name shots, delete shots that I don’t want to capture, and set new in-and-out point on shots that I like. Or I can just import everything as-is and walk away.
I guess everyone has their own flavor preference.
Cheers,
Ron
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I’ll agree that the Log and Transfer function is nice…It’s just that most shoots I’m do bring back more footage than I have the P2 cards to store for, so Quicktime’s the way for me. I did try the Make Ref movie function once, and it worked ok. I’ve had a couple of bad (non fs-100) experiences in the past working when FCP was set to render Quicktimes with reference files, when I really needed the full files…So I tend to shy away from the ref files.
Anyway, good luck!
-Rocky
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