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DVCPRO HD compositing workflow
Hello there,
I’m new to the DVCPRO HD drill. I have this commercial spot shot with HPX500 and the editing was done in a DVCPRO HD timeline. I started finishing the spot, exported the first compositing elements and noticed that the quality was poor using DVCPRO HD.
So I tried to change the timeline to Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) 1280 x 720 24p and that was better. The images came back from compositing much closer to the original quality.
My complaining is that even if I render with the same codec on Combustion somteimes I end up with image degradation, specially noticeable on the midtones, it’s like a digital noise.
Any hints? Thanks in advance.
Alexandre Cruz, São Paulo, Brasil.
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8 Replies
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Please explain precisely how you’re exporting from your FCP timeline.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
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Hello David, thanks for asking.
The timeline format is Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) 1280×720 23.98 (that I read here in the forum that’s really 23.976, as After Effects sees it).
I export using File|Export|Quicktime Movie using instead of “Current Settings” Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) 1280×720 24p 48kHz, Video Only, Recompress All Frames and Make Movie Self-Contained.
Then I make the compositing in Combustion and render using the same Codec Apple ProRes 422 (HQ). The thing is that if I go for a second generation compositing, re-inputting a rendered composite result in a new composition (I lost some of my comps’ settings, that’s why I need to recomp over a shot already semi-composited) the next result shows some degradation. You can see the noise stronger that before. And I’m pretty sure that is not because of Color Correction or other operator causing lost of digital information.
I can send some images through e-mail if you want to see it.
And again, thank you so much for answering.
Cheers.
Alex
Alexandre Cruz
http://www.nuclear.art.br
São Paulo – Brasil -
[Alexandre Cruz] “I export using File|Export|Quicktime Movie using instead of “Current Settings” Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) 1280×720 24p 48kHz, Video Only, Recompress All Frames and Make Movie Self-Contained.”
Alex,
I don’t understand why you are not using File|Export|Quicktime Movie “Current Settings.”
It certainly appears that you’re adding on an extra compression step the way you’re doing now. That could account for the artifacts you’re seeing.
David
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
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I did that because sometimes when I exported using Current Settings from that timeline, imported what I just exported and put it over the same shot they looked different. And “forcing” it to export using Apple Pro Res 422 (HQ) solved the problem.
Anyway I’ll try. But the artifacts are happening after a second compositing pass using the same material Combustion rendered.
Thanks David.
Alex.
Alexandre Cruz
http://www.nuclear.art.br
São Paulo – Brasil -
Are you noticing the image loss on a broadcast monitor? Or, on your computer monitor? I’ve noticed that Pro Res looks pretty horrible at times on my Computer monitors (noisy as hell) but looks perfect and amazing on my broadcast monitor.
Just wanted to check because I had noticed similar issues with Pro Res until I saw it on an HD monitor.
Hope that helps, sorry if it’s moot.
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Hey,welcome,
Yes, it’s there too, a little better but worst than the original.
The final deliver it’s going to be NTSC SD, so I hope everything is going to be better at the end.
It’s just that my eyes won’t miss that noise.
Thanks Eric.
Alexandre Cruz
http://www.nuclear.art.br
São Paulo – Brasil -
[Alexandre Cruz] “I did that because sometimes when I exported using Current Settings from that timeline, imported what I just exported and put it over the same shot they looked different. And “forcing” it to export using Apple Pro Res 422 (HQ) solved the problem.”
If you have changed the Compressor in Sequence Settings to ProRes, then re-rendered, and now your QT export using current settings doesn’t match, that would be quite strange.
You do have “Full” checked in the render dropdown, yes???
And, you are aware that, depending on your RT settings, the canvas will display at a lower quality in order to allow realtime playback, yes???
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
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Hey David,
Yes, I really tested the workflow extensively before get into the compositing. DVCPRO HD showed me the nasty blocks, so I used Apple ProRes.
Then, sometimes when I exported from that timeline without Recompress All Frames checked, some layers came with worst quality than what it had in the timeline.
In the middle of the process I lost all my compositing settings but I had the rendered results so far. As I had to change some of the comps I used those results as a start and then the “digital noise” appeared, only then.
I know it sounds pretty rookie, I mean, it doesn’t make any sense this “sometimes works and sometimes not” behavior, but I double checked everything and still… that’s what I got.
And a confession: I lost all my comp’s settings while I was trying to save Color’s project inside my folder named settings… next thing I know Color overwritten my folder… yes, that was pretty rookie of mine… 😉 but the rest I guarantee I didn’t screw up. I really paid attention.
Many thanks indeed for your help David through the weekend and all… Thanks a lot. And as soon as my clients air the ad I’ll send you a link to watch it.
Best
Alexandre Cruz
http://www.nuclear.art.br
São Paulo – Brasil
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