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Re: HDV to Pro Res benefits?
Hello,
I’m about to do an edit with HDV 1440×1080 format footage. Every time I’ve ever edited with this format in the past I’ve had problems: long renders, out of memory errors, weird green flashing bars on renders, system crashes etc. I haven’t used this format since the Apple Pro Res codec has been introduced, so my questions are:
1. Can I do this conversion (HDV-Pro Res) straight from the firewire port of a HDV deck, i.e. I don’t need a third party card or IO device?
2. What are the benefits of this format over HDV, should I opt for the 1920×1080 HQ (I presume this means high quality?) obviously it takes up more drive space, would the footage run from a Lacie 1TB firewire 800?
3. I have a Macbook Pro 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo and a Dual 2GHz G5 with 2 Gb Ram (FCP 6). Ideally I’d rather use the G5 to do the edit is it possible to use the Pro Res codec with this machine running Tiger?
If anyone has any tips on this workflow, or any advice on how I may choose a different route I’d be very happy to hear from you.
Thanks in advance.
Otis F
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11 Replies
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The benefit of pro rez over HDV is that it is not a long gop (group of pictures) format. HDV bundles frames together, that is why it has such a low data rate and takes up little room.
in your circumstance it doesn’t make much sense to edit your “offline” cut in pro rez. The data rate and file size is probably too big to run off a firewire drive.
However, if you plan on doing a color correct and laying your show off to tape, you will most certainly want to “re-compress” your show in the media manager to pro rez as doing any print to video/edit to tape with HDV causes FCP to have to “compile” all the frames, and this is an exhausting process.
sumation:
1. capture and work in HDV codec
2. finish in pro-rez -
1. Maybe… try it! Seems to me that it has to be an intel machine to do this…
2. Sounds reasonable, but might not need HQ unless the footage has a lot of motion in it like car racing, or other sports events etc… otherwise it looks the same as non HQ…
3. Make sure the FW drive is formatted Mac OS Extended… should run ProRes OK, especially if you don’t fill the drive up much past about 700 gigs. After 70% capacity, all drives slow down.
Jerry
Apple Certified Trainer
Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here
8-Core 3.0 Intel Mac Pro, Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D, AJA Io HD, 17″ MBP, Matrox MXO, CD’s
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Otis,
This is how I do it, only renaming the clips is easier now that I do it through the browser.
https://library.creativecow.net/articles/poisson_chris/hdv-prores.php
Benefits are no conforming, better transitions, grading and filters in general, plus you got rid of that stupid GOP format. Only downsides are disk space and drive speed you need.
Have a wonderful day.
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[Otis Foramer] “1. Can I do this conversion (HDV-Pro Res) straight from the firewire port of a HDV deck, i.e. I don’t need a third party card or IO device?”
Yes, read Chris Poisson’s tutorial on how to do this right here on the Cow.
[Otis Foramer] “2. What are the benefits of this format over HDV, should I opt for the 1920×1080 HQ (I presume this means high quality?) obviously it takes up more drive space, would the footage run from a Lacie 1TB firewire 800?”
HDV is a terrible format for editing as the image quality falls apart very quickly during color correction, graphics, etc… Also, it requires a lot of rendering. Personally, we convert all HDV to DVCPro HD as the file sizes are smaller and we have found zero benefit of ProRes vs. DVCPro HD.
[Otis Foramer] “3. I have a Macbook Pro 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo and a Dual 2GHz G5 with 2 Gb Ram (FCP 6). Ideally I’d rather use the G5 to do the edit is it possible to use the Pro Res codec with this machine running Tiger?”
Yes, with the proper hardware, though I don’t think you can do the realtime capture of HDV to ProRes with this machine. You’ll have to consult Chris’ tutorial for that.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
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Well, yes, I do it on my G5 2 gig, but it has 4.5 gigs of RAM and an X 800-XT card in it, although I think it’s RAM that does the trick with ProRes. Note that when I use it for this, the capture lag is pretty huge, more than 30 %, whereas when I do this on a 2.66 gHz Intel machine at work it is pretty much real time.
Have a wonderful day.
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A more nuanced option. Edit on an HDV sequence, but go into “Sequence Settings -> Render Control” and change “Codec” to ProRes.
Sean
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Thanks to all for your advice, I think I’ll try the HDV-Pro Res with the first tape and see what happens. If all else fails I’ll edit in HDV and render in PR. AS I’ll be doing a lot of slo mo and grading, I was just worried about the render time using that method.
Thanks
Otis F
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I just been capturing 35 tapes of HDV over firewire into ProRes 422 (not HQ) on my G5 2 Ghz, 4 G Ram.
It works fine, been using both a JVC 720p and a Canon 1080i camera as decks. It has been captured onto a CalDigit VR 1,5TB, firewire 800 hard drive and then I have made a safety copy of the files on another drive as backup. It all plays back perfect, even 3 layers of pictures with superimposing, crossfades, text etc. the render times has gone down from my former HDV projects and the improvement in picture quality when I’m doing color corrections is great.
So what is all this fuss about not ProRes 422 not working on a G5? -
[Jørn Stenersen] “So what is all this fuss about not ProRes 422 not working on a G5?”
When ProRes first came out last year the word was “no Intel Mac, no ProRes. Since then is was discovered that you can capture ProRes via Firewire on non-Intel machines, but not via capture cards on some, but not all machines. So, now that you know that, don’t you feel all warm and fuzzy inside?
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
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Thanks David.
I was just getting a bit worried about my G5 would just stop working soon after reading posts here. I’ve done a great deal of test before I started capturing and it all seems to be a great workflow to me. The only downside as I see it is the lack of batch capture possibility but I won’t need that. It gives me way better results then my former HDV workflow when exporting footage to After Effects or Motion for composting, keying etc.
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