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20TB eSATA disk array, flexible, cheap, expandable – But will it work?
I’m looking into large network storage solutions for compressed HD video editing and storage and I found a setup that would allow up to 20 1TB gtech Q drives to be connected via eSATA (5 drives to a 5X1 External Port Multiplier – then 4 External Port Multipliers into a 4-port eSATA controller – see link for diagram and more info)
https://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/extpm.asp
I’m gearing up to do 13 episodes of a low budget 1/2 hour reality/doc show and I’m wondering if this would work in conjunction with a fast network server to supply 3-4 editors with a workable editing solution. I’d be cutting HD footage from the EX-1 or hvx-200. Has anyone tried/seen something like this before?
The hardware costs for storage appear to be just a few hundred dollars beyond the cost of drives. Also has anyone tried to send this type of compressed HD footage over gigabit ethernet and what was the result?
Is there anything less than a fiberchannel connetion to a server that might suffice?
eSATA runs at 300 MB/s, but bottlenecking it like this might cut down on data speed. However XDCAM EX is 35Mbit/s which leaves plenty of room to accomodate some bottleneck.
Anyone got a good cheap solution for 20-30TB of storage shared w/ 3-4 editors?
Thanks.
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7 Replies
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Peter,
According to Bob Zelin, port multiplier technology is not terribly reliable. Bob has written about it saying that it always tends to go haywire eventually. I can’t tell you if the Addonics solution is a keeper or not, but I’d be very wary if I were you.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los AngelesPOST-PRODUCTION WITHOUT THE USUAL INSANITY ™
A forum host of Creative COW’s Apple Final Cut Pro, Business & Marketing, and Indie Film & Documentary forums.
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I’m with David. That setup looks like a disaster.
Check out the solutions from Sonnet and Dulce.
They have pci express expanders that allow you to connect multiple raid protected arrays for relatively “cheap”:
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/fusionraidexpander.html
A shared solution is never cheap. The cheapest way is sneaker net.
Jeremy
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[Peter Bobrow] ” (5 drives to a 5X1 External Port Multiplier – then 4 External Port Multipliers into a 4-port eSATA controller – see link for diagram and more info) “
Don’t assume port multipliers will work in a Mac using that card. I know for a fact that was a Windows-only feature a year ago. PM is controlled by the OS driver – it’s not plug and play like you would think. Call Addonics and confirm. If it doesn’t work in a Mac, you can still probably use a Sonnet card with the Addonics PM device. And heed David’s warning and read what Bob had to say about it.
[Peter Bobrow] “Also has anyone tried to send this type of compressed HD footage over gigabit ethernet and what was the result? “
It depends on your expectations. It can work okay, but scrubbing around in Final Cut will feel sluggish compared to FC or DAS. Bandwidth isn’t the issue – it’s latency. Many factors will determine the severity of this problem. The beauty is that you can test it before you buy anything. Share a disk on another Mac and try editing off it.
[Peter Bobrow] “eSATA runs at 300 MB/s, but bottlenecking it like this might cut down on data speed. However XDCAM EX is 35Mbit/s which leaves plenty of room to accomodate some bottleneck. “
SATA is actually 300MB/s per port. Your setup would be using four of them. So that 1200MB/s. You won’t get that of course. But not because of a SATA bus limitation.
[Peter Bobrow] “Anyone got a good cheap solution for 20-30TB of storage shared w/ 3-4 editors?”
There are tons of great, cheap options. Unfortunately not on the Mac. I wouldn’t punish anyone by recommending iSCSI on a Mac (at least not until the Small Tree driver comes out). There’s no Infiniband drivers for Mac. And while you can get very expensive 10gbe ethernet, OSX does not provide TCP Offloading, so it wouldn’t work very well – at least not on the client end. Not to mention 10gbe is probably more expensive than FC.
You should check out this product here:
https://www.areca.com.tw/products/fiber_to_sata_ll.htmYou’ll still need FC equipment and MetaSAN, so it’s not a cheap solution. And I don’t know anyone using it so it’s a shot in the dark.
If you can live with AFP filesharing, I would just get some Small Tree cards and use that until a better solution comes along. Projects like FreeNAS and Openfiler are improving every day.
Sean
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Search this forum for raids and Mr Bob Zelin, or just track the man down….. blood hounds should work 😉
Bob posted in a raids posting (1-2 months ago) that he discovered at NAB some guys that had a poor mans shared area network like you are needing. It used a network switch and gigabit network cards, if I recall correctly and a dedicated server Mac… He was very excited about it, to the point he was setting one up for himself.
So I would like to know if he is still excited about it or if the new tech just flamed out…
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I realize this is an old thread, but I thought I’d chime in and report some long term results. I use a Sonnet eSata board in my early 2008Mac Pro 3.2×8 machine. Two of these ports and the two on board ports feed a four disk Adonics array in my second optical bay. The other two are more interesting. They feed an external G5 case modded to hold a lot of drives. When I built I planned to host 20 1TB drives. I started out with a mix and match assortment of drives and moved into 2TB Hitachi drives–of which I have ten for 20TB in two Raid 0 10TB arrays mirrored.
Prior to this, I unplugged one of the port multipliers with the power on and fried it. I replaced it and had a few issues with the cables when I move it for first set it up, but by leaving it alone, it has been stable for 1.5 years. I’m very happy with it. I just use it for a time machine backup.
My boot drive is a 160 Intel SSD. I have two other 2.5″ drives–one is an emergency backup for my MacBook Pro, the other is not used.
My four main drives are 1TB Seagates, bought in 2008 and running perfectly in a RAID 0.
So Port Multipliers work. I’m not totally happy with the eSata connectors, but they are fine and pretty fast. I’d like to switch to Thunderbolt if an when I can buy a card for it, and a breakout connector for this case to serve 10TBx2.
I have more than a year of Time Machine backups, which is pretty cool. I’d like to try and lean down my data some on the main drive and wipe and restart the TM drives at some point, but I’m in no hurry as I have more space than I know what to do with. I also use this array to back up three other laptops and a Mac Mini. So far so good.
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Amazing that there isn’t an inexpensive storage data company. Every visual photographer and filmmaker is loading up on external hard drives I presently have 10 TB of images and haven’t even scanned my old images. If one hears of an affordable reliable company like a huge ftp site storage place where we can do this I would appreciate knowing the name.
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How much GB’s do you need on line at a time? You can buy huge servers but do you need one.. Get a esata board for your computer and just use a esata Hard drive docking station. I have 8 of them and all but one is a dual docking station. Just label your bare hard drives so you can keep track of the details..
Old client comes over, you need old data, go to file cabinet pull out client archive bare esata drive and plug in. Use 2 x 2GB esata hard drive and you have 4GB per docking station.
FCP, Mac Pro, Mac Book Pro, HPX500, HVX200, Betacam, Dvcam
Write for the Edit, Shoot for the Edit, Edit…..KISS Principle
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