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Cinema Tools Database problems
Thanks for reading. I have done multiple searches but can not find the answers I’m looking for. I am a sound supervisor who has quickly been involved in the video depts quest to track down a major problem with their databases. It came to light because none of the Audio EDLs that they have provided are in sync when we auto assemble the production rolls using Titan.
Long story short, we have tracked down a possible cause of the problems to the settings in their databases. My questions are as follows:
1)After a new database is created with default settings, does the ALE record override the default settings of the DB when the telecine logs are imported?
What we are seeing is the individual records for Video and Audio settings are 24, even when the database defaults are set for 30. We are trying to track down if the Telecine house is sending us wrong settings in the ALE.
Believe it or not, NO ONE in the editorial dept of this company understands what these settings should be for their workflow. The post supervisor just quit and they are coming to me for answers.
2)Assuming the following workflow, what should the settings in the ALE file and CT database be?
35mm 4 perf, tranferred to 23.98 HDCAMSR masters, downconverted to 29.97 DVCAM tapes, which are loaded through a Blackmagic card via CT batch capture lists set at 23.98. Editorial and online are done at 23.98. They do film out from there.I am assuming that the Blackmagic card is doing the reverse telecine on the card.
3)I am confused about what the video settings in the databases correlate to. Is it the 24 frame HD masters, the 30 frame NTSC down converts or the captured 23.98 clips?
Thanks so much for your help in advance. Due to the pending SAG strike our ADR schedules have been advanced and we are under the gun to listen to the conformed production rolls and cue ADR for 6 movies. We really need to establish a practical workflow.
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4 Replies
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[Eric Lalicata] “1)After a new database is created with default settings, does the ALE record override the default settings of the DB when the telecine logs are imported? “
It does. Default settings are for new records, created by a user.
“3)I am confused about what the video settings in the databases correlate to. Is it the 24 frame HD masters, the 30 frame NTSC down converts or the captured 23.98 clips? “
Tapes the footage was actually captured from. In your case – DVCAM downconverts, so 30.
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[Eric Lalicata] “After a new database is created with default settings, does the ALE record override the default settings of the DB when the telecine logs are imported?
“Eric.
if you are referring to ALE ( avid log exchange), I have never been able to sync to avids database functions without the use of some other app ( I have done it with Sebsky tools)CT databases start with the default settings, and if those have not been changed by the USER, 24p defaults to 24.0 fps rather than the video standard of 23.98.
[Eric Lalicata] “I am assuming that the Blackmagic card is doing the reverse telecine on the card. “
That would be a BAD assumption, hardware cards add pulldown to NTSC file but they do not really properly remove pulldown on capture- that is usually a function of the NLE.
[Eric Lalicata] “)I am confused about what the video settings in the databases correlate to. Is it the 24 frame HD masters, the 30 frame NTSC down converts or the captured 23.98 clips?”
I can not answer that without seeing the project, but my guess is the database is seeing the NTSC if it is all set to 30fps.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows
Inside look at the IoHD -
Thanks guys for the responses. So any thoughts on how I can get these two departments to work out a practical workflow?
Forgive me, as I am not a video pro, I just know enough to be dangerous. Like I said, I’m the sound guy trying to work all this out.
Michael, good to know that the ALE settings over ride the defaults. This makes me think that we need to ask the telecine department to check their settings for the picture editorial departments capture workflow.
However, Gary, you say that the Blackmagic Decklink card may not be doing the 29.97 to 23.98 conversion correctly? So is this workflow even the correct thing for them to be doing? I do not notice and weird frame duplicates or studdering effects in these videos. How should they be doing it based on the video lineage I outlined in my original post?
I know they are cutting at 23.98 because they say the online house requested it as it is easier for them to recapture the HDCAMSR 23.98 tapes using a copy of the FCP project. I always thought that one would capture DVCAM 29.97 tapes at 29.97 and use the reverse telecine option in cinema tools to derive your 23.98 clips that then could be edited on a 23.98 timeline. However, what they are doing is taking the CT generated batch capture list and “control clicking” on it to do a “batch capture at 23.98”. Is this the same thing? What I mean is, is FCP doing the frame removal on capture and the Blackmagic card is just capturing 29.97fps? If so, is this an acceptable procedure to get a 23.98 sequence from 29.97 dvcam tapes?
Thanks again for your assistance. If anyone is interested, I know the production company is prepared to pay an “expert” for a week if they would come in and help straighten all this out.
Eric Lalicata
Re-Recording Mixer
Supervising Sound Editor
Owner
Anarchy Post
1811 Victory Blvd
Glendale, CA 91201
818-334-3300 -
The settings are for telecine speed. If you went from film to 24 (23.98) video, the setting should be 24. If pulldown was added in the telecine (going to 29.97 video) then the setting is 30.
If you went to 24 video, then downconverted to 29.97, then reversed that 29.97 footage back to 24 (23.98) then the database in cinema tools should still be set to 24 and not 30, as that is the timebase of the transfer, and it’s also the timebase of the edit.
Cinema Tools uses 24 and 30, when it means 23.98 and 29.97. Cinema Tools works, but its a bit of a kludge.
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