-
best export/compression workflow
Hi
I created a movie in 1080p (1920 x 1080) that uses footage in 1080p25, 720pN25 from P2 HVX-200 as well as a lot of hires still images. The movie is ending-up in 4 different formats : hires best quality to play on Mac, sd dvd, mp4 for web in 480 x 270 and HD 1366 x 768, best quality to play on PC/Windows.
My current workflow is :
1/ export to QT movie with current clip settings directly from FCP 5.1 – I end up with a 3.1 MB/sec file [Apple hdv 1080p25, 1440×1080 (1882 x 1062), millions, 16-bit integer (big endian), stereo 48 KkHz] – this file is big but plays very well on my MacBook Pro – however it does not always play on PC-Windows (most of the times, there is no video)
2/ convert this big file in Compressor to create the dvd files by selecting the best quality sd dvd conversion (MPEG-2 6.2Mbps 2-pass 16/9.m2v + Dolby.ac3 + aif files) – most of the times, I am disappointed with the quality of the dvd playing on my Mac or tv comparing a/ to the original QT movie AND to commercial dvds
3/ convert the same original big QT file to mpg4 for web ending with a decent web quality and about 50 Kb / sec
4/ once again take the same original file, open it in QT Pro and export it as a QuickTime movie (mov) with the following settings : size 1366×768, MPG4, best quality and end up with a mov file 1/4 smaller than the original that apparently plays well on PC/Windows
Apparently, all this works fine but I wonder if it is the best way to do it and I am not happy at all with the quality of the sd dvd.
Paul
-
11 Replies
-
First why are you going from DVCProHD to HDV, I understand that the file size is so much smaller but you are going to a highly compressed codec to be the master of other highly compressed formats.
Think if you eliminate HDV from the workflow you will see much better results with your DVDs. Remember it will never look as good as the original.
-
[Paul Godard] “this file is big but plays very well on my MacBook Pro – however it does not always play on PC-Windows (most of the times, there is no video). “
Yes because you’re exporting in the HDV codec. The Windows machines would require that codec in order to play the video. And why are you taking your DVCPro HD material and compressing it 25:1 to HDV? That’s is just killing the quality of your DVCPro HD material.
[Paul Godard] “most of the times, I am disappointed with the quality of the dvd playing on my Mac or tv comparing a/ to the original QT movie AND to commercial dvds”
Are you upping the quality on the MPEG-2 settings or just using as-is? You can control the quality of the MPEG using the sliders. We have switched back to BitVite from Innobits as they create a MUCH higher quality MPEG-2 for SD-DVD’s. They’re problem has been ridiculously slow render times, but they have greatly improved that with version 1.8.
Also, if you’re using the HDV export for this, then you’ve already degraded the quality of your original timeline.
[Paul Godard] “Apparently, all this works fine but I wonder if it is the best way to do it and I am not happy at all with the quality of the sd dvd.”
Compressor is the not the best tool in the world for MPEG-2 compression. You’ve already dropped the quality of your original timeline by exporting it as an HDV file. The only way to get your DVD to look as good as the original is to create a BluRay Disc. These look flat out gorgeous and every bit as good as the original HD material.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
-
Howdy, Good news and bad news. Good news, the company that makes cinemacraft encoder is finally coming out with a mac version! Bad news I have no idea when it will be available. I wrote them an email and have not heard back yet. What is really nice is that it will be a plugin in compressor. Check out the site.
https://www.omni-cinemacraft.com/products_cinemacraft_encodermp.shtml
This should finally allow us to make good looking mpeg2 video.
I hope,
Nothing against bitvice of course.
James
-
My timeline is hdv 1080p, that’s correct. I am upscaling the video shot in 720pN25. The reason is because I mix with still images (50 %) that have even higher resolution than the video and I want to have a high resolution movie in full hd 1920 x 1080 to play from my Mac on a full hd lcd screen or projector.
Is there something wrong to do this?
Should I better upscale to dvcpro 1080p?
-
[Paul Godard] “My timeline is hdv 1080p, that’s correct. I am upscaling the video shot in 720pN25.”
So is all your footage from P2 or just the 720? The way you described it in your original post, it’s all P2 so that’s why I thought you were degrading DVCPro HD.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
Biscardi Creative Media
HD and SD Production for Broadcast and Independent Productions.STOP STARING AND START GRADING WITH APPLE COLOR Apple Color Training DVD available now!
Read my Blog!
-
Paul,
As I read it, you have two video sources: HDV (1080p25) and DVCProHD (720pN25). You also have high-res stills. Your sequence is HDV. Your output is various quicktime formats.I don’t believe there’s anything NECESSARILY wrong with choosing HDV as the sequence format. Especially if the majority of your source footage is HDV, this is not a bad choice. If the P2 stuff is the majority, I’d rethink that (and the solution gets complicated). The reason HDV is not bad is that you are rendering to various other formats anyway. In other words, the program that compresses your sequence to various other formats is going to take what you have in the HDV sequence in its native form and it will then compress that into another form.
The one bad thing you’re doing is exporting “QuickTime with current settings” as an intermediate file and then making all your other formats from that. In that step you are adding tremendous compression to both the DVCProHD and the stills. You can export straight out of Final Cut, via Compressor, to each of the needed formats. This will avoid the intermediate compression step.
If you must use an intermediate file for some reason, it is better to go with an uncompressed (or much LESS compressed) format instead of the HDV. This can be done using Quicktime Conversion or by changing the sequence compressor and then exporting QuickTime using those settings.
Regarding HD playback on Windows and Mac:
If you are targeting the general public, you should choose a codec that is commonly available to them. Apple HDV is not one of those. Two choices rise to the top: H.264 for Quicktime and Windows Media for Windows. Quicktime specs for HD playback are here: https://www.apple.com/quicktime/player/specs.htmlWindows Media has a similar page. If you’re not targeting the general public and can supply a codec, the choices are different.
When you do export to the various formats, check to make sure you’re keeping your output progressive throughout. Compressor handles this automatically.
-Tom -
OK my first posting might have been confusing.
Let’s say that the most of the video footage I get in my movies is now the 720pN25 from my P2 HVX-200 (so the solution gets complicated, isn’t it?). As I said, I also use a lot of stills – hires of course.
Just to repeat my objectives…
My first objective is to create a movie of the best quality to play on a Mac and PC to a true hd lcd tv or projector.
My second objective — as important — is to downscale the same movie to the best possible sd dvd quality.
Occasionally, I also need to create web movies from parts of the same original movie.
So the questions I am asking are :
1/ What is the best timeline setting (which preset) to have the highest quality in true hd for both the footage and the still images, and what is the best way to create the best quick time movie for a Mac AND a windows PC (the one to use for the projection of true hd on lcd tv or projector)?
Tom you are saying
“Two choices rise to the top: H.264 for Quicktime and Windows Media for Windows.”
Can you tell me exactly how to create the best movie to play on Windows? Is it better to play the file on the standard Windows Media Player, or to download QT Player?
2/ on the other hand, the same movie needs to be delivered on sd dvd. Once again what is exactly the best way to create that dvd via fcp 5.1, compressor 2 and dvd studio pro?
Tom, you are saying
“If you must use an intermediate file for some reason, it is better to go with an uncompressed (or much LESS compressed) format instead of the HDV. This can be done using Quicktime Conversion or by changing the sequence compressor and then exporting QuickTime using those settings.”
Can you please tell me exactly how to export from FCP for DVDSP, in a better way I was doing before? I was told at my initial training not to use “export via compressor”, but create the intermediate QT file instead and do as you know…
-
For objective 2 (SD DVD), use your existing sequence and export using Compressor. Choose Best Quality 60 min. 16:9. That’s as good as you’ll get with Compressor. The only disadvantage is that the export will tie up Final Cut until it’s done.
By “full HD” do you mean 1920×1080 progressive? If you want 1080 output in the future, you should shoot 1080 with your HVX200. I’m not sure myself how you should proceed to make a 1080 Quicktime with only the software you have. My first try would be to finish the edit in 720p25 and then drop the sequence onto a 1080p25 timeline. Export from that using Compressor with a high quality H.264 setting.
Realize that only high-end PCs will be able to play 1080 Quicktimes. Mom’s Pentium-III won’t cut it.
If you do shoot 1080p25 on your P2 in the future, your SD DVD method is the same. Just export using Compressor to a high quality 16:9 setting. If you wish to work from an intermediate Quicktime (export using current settings), you won’t lose much this way.
Final Cut Studio 2, FCP 6.0.2, Mac OS-X 10.4.11, Quicktime 7.4, After Effects 6.5 Pro, G5 Quad 2.5, Kona-LHe V5.1, 4.5GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce 7800-GT 256MB, G-RAID 2x1TB FW800, 6TB RAID-5 (Enhance E8-ML, Highpoint 2322), Panasonic HVX-200P P2.
-
The thing that is not understood is why are you using HDV if most of your footage is DVCProHD.
The best quality from compressor is achieved by using Export to Compressor from the FCP sequence, the downside is you time up FCP while it is encoding and it does take longer to encode. But if you are going to make a self contained QT movie you want to keep it the same as your timeline. And for the timeline it is normally best to keep it in the format of the majority of you footage.
Best m2v movies using compressor is via FCP Export to compressor and if you can you use a bitrate close to or above 6 Mbps use CBR. You can try a 3 minute section and evaluate the encode.
-
Thanks Tom
I see you also own the HVX-200. When I got the camera from Panasonic, I was told – and that was confirmed by other ‘experts’ – that to achieve the best quality with the camera, I had to shot in 720pN25, not 1080. I did some tests and I agreed. I also found that the autofocus was much less responsive in 1080. So this is the reason I shoot in 720pN25.
What is your opinion on that?
Now you suggest that the timeline be dvcpro 720p. OK I understand but what about the stills? If I place the stills at the resolution of 1248×702 and afterwards upscale to a new sequence at 1080p, I will blow-up low res images to 1920 x 1080, isn’t it?
Question : Can I place a high res 1920 x 1080 in the 720p timeline with the appropriate scaling factor to display the pic full page, then upscale to the new 1080 timeline without loosing image quality on the still?
Regarding the dvd workflow, I appreciate the advise. I have already make a test, and I can notice the difference especially on text on screen.
I still have a question regarding the bit rate in compressor. If I use Jeff & Ken calculator I obtain an average of 6.8 and a max of 7.8 for this movie. What are the best values? How does the bit rate affect the quality of the dvd?
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up