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720p P2 files workflow
I have been getting more and more footage on discs. Most of it is 720p DVCProHD. If I simply drag a clip to a sequence and let FCP change the settings to match the footage, it creates a sequence that is 23.98 with no fields.
I have had some issues with this footage if I export a clip for After Effects. I also don’t believe I should cut the clips in a 23.98 sequence.
I prefer the digitize from tape method so I can set the parameters for the incoming footage and let the deck and the card do the work. This always works for me. I have recently output the P2 clips to tape first, the batch digitized, and again that worked great.
So, if I have files, should I set the sequence first, then drop the clips in and hope for the best?
What are you guys doing with 23.98 clips delivered on hard drives? Anyone else’s experiences will help me make a plan.
I’m on FCP 6.0.2, QT 7.3, G5 dual 2.7 Kona LH on Tiger.
Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media -
6 Replies
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[Rich Rubasch] “I also don’t believe I should cut the clips in a 23.98 sequence. “
why?
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Yeah…why not 23.98? Why SHOOT that format if you don’t intend to edit that format?
I have delivery requirements that this format helps me achieve. I need to deliver an HDCAM tape, 1080p 23.98. Cross converting 720p 23.98 to 1080p 23.98 is a snap. And this format converts to 1080i 29.97 and 720p 59.94 just fine too.
What issues with AE are you having?
What am I doing with the footage? I import it, cut it, output to tape. The MXF files I archive on hard drives. I occasionally export footage to deal with an AE, green screening primarily. No problems with the footage in a 720p 23.98 project.
Shane
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Thanks guys. Well, I did think that cutting in 23.98 was better. I dragged the clips into the sequence, let the sequence do the matching and off I went.
However I also had to mix in some standard def clips from betacam. There were field order problems, juddering in renders out of AE and more.
When I export the 720p 23.98 sequence from FCP and use it in AE, should I also be working in a 23.98 sequence there? When I did that the 29.97 standard def stuff got very juddery, like frames were being pulled out…it was harsh. I got that fixed.
But it also looked like the 23.98 stuff wasn’t being field ordered correctly. Actually FCP set up the sequence to no fields and I couldn’t change it there because it was grayed out.
Our delivery was a 1920 x 1080 square pixels Quicktime Upper field Animation codec at 29.97, and my sources were 720p 23.98 DVCProHD (960 x 720 – anamorphic) and Betacam.
I was having issues mixing all the various sources into a big comp in AE and having the fields behave. (AE CS3) But I thought perhaps the culprit was starting in a 23.98 sequence with no fields and trying to force it into a 1920 x 1080 upper field comp in AE.
One last tidbit….these files were being imported into a Grass Valley Turbo Disc recorder for a show and in some tests lower field 1920 x 1080 clips looked better according to one tech. This goes against all the specs for the system and HD footage. I was told to render out lower field in the final render….reluctantly I did so. Still haven’t heard if they worked or not.
Any thoughts on this mess?
Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media -
There are no fields in 23.98, it’s all progressive so you don’t have to worry about that. Using 29.97 SD material in a 23.98 timeline can be tricky. You have to deal with that with a frame rate conversion. You can use Compressor, nattress, fields kit (kind of) or dedicated hardware. If I were you and you need to deliver a 1080i timeline out of AE, I would simply create a 23.98 1080 timeline in AE since your 720p 23.98 timeline will temporally fit perfectly in there. You will have to resize the DVCPro HD stuff to make it 16×9 and 1080, and AE does a rather nice job of that. The SD stuff you will have to process, or send out to get upconverted and retimed then simply add pulldown on render to the 1080 comp to bring you up to 29.97. That will be nice and clean.
Jeremy
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Great advice Jeremy….to clarify one point you would add the pulldown in the render process?
What I have done in the past is to create the 23.98 comp and in the advanced tap click the Preserve Frame Rate button. Then I create a 1080 comp at 29.97 and drop the 23.98 comp in there. It always added the pulldown that way automatically. Then I would just use my 29.97 fields-based render settings.
Or do you think adding the pulldown in the render settings is better? Or just different?
BTW, I was correct in dropping the clips into a sequence in FCP and letting FCP make the sequence match the clips….it was the 29.97 stuff that didn’t hold up thru AE and the render process.
Just checking…
Rich Rubasch
Tilt Media -
[Rich Rubasch] “Or do you think adding the pulldown in the render settings is better? Or just different? “
This is one of the many many beauties of AE. You can add pulldown to your 23.98 material in one pass. The way you are doing it now, you are compressing your movie twice. Once for 23.98 then once for 29.97 (even if you are doing ‘lossless’ Animation). I would just add pulldown to the render in the output module. Simply change the field rendering from ‘off’ to ‘upper field first’ then you will see the 3:2 pulldown option light up. Pick a pulldown pattern (I usually do WWWSS if I am creating a fresh movie from the beginning) and away you go.
[Rich Rubasch] “BTW, I was correct in dropping the clips into a sequence in FCP and letting FCP make the sequence match the clips….it was the 29.97 stuff that didn’t hold up thru AE and the render process.
Just checking… “
Yeah, that’s totally fine to let FCP make the sequence as long as you start with a DVCPro HD 23.98 clip and not an SD 29.97 clip. 29.97 interlaced is tricky in a 23.98 progressive timeline. Ideally you would get those pieces processed to 23.98 however you feel is best or however fits your budget first, then send that newly conformed material to AE rather than let FCP do it’s 29.97 to 23.98 timeline up-convert and conform then send that nonsense to AE. Make sense?
Jeremy
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