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Re: FCP 6 DF &NDF issue
Hello All,
We are taking a DVCPROHD 720P 59.94 sequence and placing it in a 720p 29.97 timeline or 1080i 59.94. What we see is that on doing this, the actual shots are being reduced in duration. For example a shot is being trimmed leaving a black hole. When we make the sequence DF it does the same thing.
Any suggestions on how i can get the sequence into a DF timeline so i can get an accurate time.
I look forward to your questions and or suggestions.
Sincerely,
Arjun -
7 Replies
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This is what I do:
https://lfhd.blogspot.com/2006/09/online-workflow-overview.html
But, I determine BEFOREHAND what my duration has to be, then use that method to determine what my timing should be in the NDF world.
The other way, export a QT movie…reference, then import that and drop it into a DF timeline.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
Timecode has NOTHING to do with this. Drop or non drop only keeps track of frames, and has absolutely nothing to do with durations or frame rates.
You can’t expect to change the frame rate and NOT have it impact the duration.
Mark
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Hello All
I did not explain myself clearly, While the counting of the frames changes, there should not be a reduction in the video frames. When we cut and paste the sequence from a 59.94 editing timebase and put it in a DF 59.94 sequence this should not as per my understanding get rid of Video Frames. If a shot has 60 frames in a NDF timeline it will have 60 frames in a DF timeline as well. However we are noticing that it reduces the actual video frames, and introduces black frames of an arbitrary duration.
Thank you for your responses thus far. I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Arjun Rao -
OK…Here is what’s happening….
When you take a SEQUENCE full of clips that are all 23.98, and copy and paste them into a sequence that is 29.97, a ONE FRAME GAP appears between every clip. This is NOT a DF/NDF issue, this is a frame rate issue. Why does FCP do this? WHo knows. But it has nothing to do with the fact that the 23.98 sequence is NDF and the timeline is DF. It is an odd bug.
SO…that being said…DON’T DO THAT. DO what I do in my blog post that I linked to….or the suggestion I made after. Either pre-time your NDF show by putting slug in a DF timeline to get the timing you want, then copy and paste that into an NDF timeline to see what time you have to hit in a non-drop timeline to have it work out to be the proper time in a DF timeline. HORRID workaround, I know, but, what you have to do.
OR…export a Quicktime Movie…REFERENCE, reimport that, drop that into a DF timeline to see what your timing is. This way no gaps will occur.
Mark, we know that the frame rate of NDF and DF is exactly the same, and only frame numbers are dropped (2 every minute except for every 10th minute)…and that is the underlying issue. How can you find out your acutal show time in an NDF timeline? This is how.
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net -
Dear Shane,
Thanks for this. We have followed the using slug to figure out the time approach. That being said the fact that there is not an explanation for the black is heartening. Also when you do time out the accurate clock based on a NDF timeline, does this affect the act breaks for the show?
Thanks for this.
Arjun -
[Arjun Rao] “Also when you do time out the accurate clock based on a NDF timeline, does this affect the act breaks for the show?”
Absolutely this affects act breaks for a show. 720p/60 DF it NOT supported by FCP, hasn’t been since it came out. I’ve been trying to get Apple’s attention for three years on this, so far nothing.
You can use Shane’s approach of bringing a slug into the NDF timeline to accurately time your breaks.
Or you can simply copy and paste your 720 timeline into any 29.97 timeline to see what the actual DF running time is of the project.
In our case, we take a national series and convert all the material to 1080i on the way in so we can accurately edit in 1080i/29.97 DF. We really want to use 720p, but Apple has really screwed us on that one with no DF support.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.All Things Apple Podcast! https://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Read my blog! https://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi
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[Arjun Rao] “Also when you do time out the accurate clock based on a NDF timeline, does this affect the act breaks for the show?”
Well…this makes it difficult for timing the act breaks PRECISELY, like I have had to do with Discovery. They require, for their SD shows, that each act end on a 00 frame…well, that each COMMERCIAL BREAK begin on a 00 frame, and they allow a 15-45 frame handle of black between your last frame and the commercial break. And then each act needed to begin on the 00 frame. Needless to say, when you made a change in Act 2, that threw your timing off and you spent a good 3 hours trying to get it back into place.
With HD and the NDF timelines…this is IMPOSSIBLE. Maybe this is the reason that Discovery no longer requires that 00 frame thingy.
Why HD timelines don’t include DF is beyond me. MANY people say that “well, HD in a NDF format.” BOLLOCKS! You STILL need to deliver a show that is PROPERLY timed…that has a proper clock, and NDF timecode doesn’t give you that.
So we deliver an HDCAM NDF master and a DF Digibeta master. Both are timed out to lock to the required time of the show…using my method.
If you require certain times for act breaks…I don’t know what to say…do a lot of testing…
Shane
Littlefrog Post
http://www.lfhd.net
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