-
Drop or non in HD
I have been asked to sort out tech requirements for a production that is shooting 108060i (a mix of HDV and XDCam). As I normally work in PAL and frequently see horror posts about the mixing of various flavours of NTSC frame rates & code types, I was curious as to the most common form of 29.97 code.
Is drop or non drop the most common. I know I will need to get clarification of final deliverables but my previous experience with NHK was that drop was best.
I take it that mixing DF and NDF is a no no.
-
13 Replies
-
You want non-drop, although I don’t think drop frame TC even exists in HD. 99% of all professional workflows use non-drop TC. You can always convert to drop frame at the end if that’s what your delivery requirement is, although i doubt it would be, but your camera should be shooting non-drop so stick with that for editorial.
-
29.97 is drop frame TC. If you are doing longform projects you want DF TC so that your show comes out to time. All PBS HD submissions for instance are 1080 29.97 DF HDCam.
Jim Calahan
KVIE, Sacramento -
Thanks but the score so far is 50/50
-
[Jim Calahan] “29.97 is drop frame TC.”
Careful Jim, not all 29.97 is Drop Frame
the basic rule of thumb is that all Integer rates,(those with rounded numbers) and frame rates less than 25fps are always NDF (that would mean that 30p is NDF while 29.97 can be either but is traditionally annotating DF timecode)
The reason that US broadcasters still want DF timecode is mainly due to the age of the satelites and legacy hardware that are still being used to send and receive those signals into space and back. The is absolutely no need for DF timecode in a digital signal path.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows -
[mattdawgpro] “You want non-drop, although I don’t think drop frame TC even exists in HD.”
Absolutely drop frame exists. All the panasonic cameras shoot in Drop Frame.
[mattdawgpro] “99% of all professional workflows use non-drop TC.”
Here I have to disagree. Been working in the industry 17 years and have only done minimal projects in non-drop frame. Everything is done in drop frame.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.All Things Apple Podcast! https://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Read my blog! https://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi
-
[Michael G] “Is drop or non drop the most common.”
Drop Frame is most common in the U.S. This is especially important for timing as a drop frame timeline will time out differently than a non-drop timeline.
So if you edit a show in a non-drop timeline and it times out exactly to 21:00 per a network spec, your show will be off when you switch to Drop Frame. So while you can simply switch between drop and non-drop at any time during your editing process, your timing will be off if you do it this way.
[Michael G] “I know I will need to get clarification of final deliverables but my previous experience with NHK was that drop was best.”
The specs of the network are the only rule to follow here. Doesn’t really matter what we think, all that matters is the spec.
[Michael G] “I take it that mixing DF and NDF is a no no.”
Within in the timeline it doesn’t matter so long as your final timeline is set up correctly to network specs and meets their timing.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.All Things Apple Podcast! https://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Read my blog! https://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi
-
well, then i’ll weigh in with a vote for both as well.
i do mostly HD broadcast, and they (the networks) ALL want DF. for my corporate stuff, which is still mostly done with my trusty BetaSP toys, it doesn’t matter: DF or NDF…but i usually keep it all DF just so i’m not switching back and forth…and forget to go back to DF for my broadcast work! : )
thanks again!
mh
-
It doesn’t matter what the source tapes are shot with. Either format edited in a drop frame sequence will end up the same on the master tape in the end.
The reason most broadcast facilities want drop frame masters is because it’s the easiest way to figure out what the actual time of the program is.
Jerry
Apple Certified Trainer
Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here
Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D
-
PS. Just make the spec that all footage has to be shot at 29.97… don’t want to mix frame rates, but it doesn’t make any difference whatsoever what sort of timecode the source material has. Drop Frame is probably the most common…
Jerry
Apple Certified Trainer
Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here
Dual 2 gig G5, AJA Kona SD, AJA Kona 2, Huge Systems Array UL3D
-
I do mostly :15 & :30 TV spots and they are always done at non drop. Always has been that way.
But all of our longform is ALWAYS drop frame.
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up