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final Cut straight to Neg Cut
Hi everyone, I’m doing a low budget 35mm film base 24fps project, at the moment all footage has been telecine and put into DV-PAL at 25fps. I would like to use FCP as the offline edit system which will produce an edl for negative cutting. My big concern is what kind of work flow(setting for capture DV footage, and spitting out edls, etc..) will produce the most accurate transfer between the offline and film. Thank you.
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7 Replies
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Do some research in the FCP manual. It outlines the options for you in depth.
-Russ
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most of the answeres you need are to be found in the CINEMA TOOLS MANUAL.
i also wrote this reply to another query a while back, (it covers a fair bit of ground):
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CINEMA TOOLS.
i found the manual to be pretty good.
i printed it out,
and just ignored the NTSC stuff.
there’s not much PAL stuff in there, so it’s simple, really.
i also managed to get my hands on someone else’s footage to use as a test, so i wasn’t going in blind.1st question re Cinema Tools: DO YOU NEED IT?
you only really need cinema tools if you are going to produce a CUT LIST for a neg matcher, or pos conformist
this is actually quite unlikely.
When we did Three Dollars, i found most neg matchers didn’t want a Cut List from FCP,
they wanted an EDL from which they would use their own software to generate a cut list.
in those days (FCP 4.1.1) FCP couldn’t create a usable EDL from a 24fps sequence, so for us a Cinema Toools Cut List was the only way to go,
but since FCP 4.5, the 24fps EDLs work.
as for making a Pos Conform, less and less people will be doing that, but if you are one of the few, then good for you!These days you may be scanning your neg for a DI finish.
this would probably be done with EDLs so again no need for a cut list, & no need for Cinema Tools.
Of course check with your lab, or tape house about this.The next most important thing to ask is ARE YOU WORKING AT 24fps?
if NO, and if you are shooting and cutting and finishing at 25fps, then you dont need cinema tools, and you dont need to do anything special with your footage at all,
(other than the Managing of a large project)if YES, then you dont necessarily need Cinema Tools either. (unless you need a cut list as stated above)
You can do the “conforming” directly in FCP.
“Conforming” is what FCP calls the process of taking you 25fps telecine footage and slowing it down to 24fps.a tricky thing to grasp is that while the material runs at 24fps, the TIMECODE still runs at 25fps!
you have to make sure that the TC rate is set to the special 24@25 setting on your clips and sequnces.
(this is covered in the manual)FCP can keep track of the TC drift by using it’s own special magic, BUT….
IT WONT WORK WITH SUBCLIPS
they confuse the calculations.
SO…
if you want to cut with slates and takes all broken down,
then you either have to:
a) log & capture them like that
b) capture whole tapes, break them down in FCP and batch export them, (tip: Media Manager probably wont work for this)
c) use an ALE file from the telecine to create offline clips in FCP that you then batch capture.
(this last is the most prohibitive for low-budget films as it ups your telecine time)basically for the 24@25 trick to work, you need to have one FILE on your drive for each CLIP in your project.
and if Cinema Tools is part of the equation then you would also have one DATABASE ENTRY for the corresponding FILE and CLIP.does that make sense?
does to me, anyway.A BIT MORE ON 24@25
25fps BATCH LIST BACK-UP
as stated, once you conform your clips to 24fps, the timecode is screwy.
now the EDLs cope with this,
but what if a clip went offline, or you lost a drive or something, and had to re-capture?
(it;s always good to have a “recovery plan”)
bad news: last time i looked, you wont be able to use the 24@25 clips in FCP to batch capture
so make sure you export a BATCH LIST of your clips just before you conform them to 24do all the stuff you CAN do to the clips’ column info before you conform, like adding correct scene numbers, or shot descriptions if needed,
then export the batch list,
then conform.24@25 SETTING IS NON-CRITCAL.
well you have to have it for the EDL to work,
but the good news is if you forget to set it, and launch into your edit,
you can set it retrospectively, and the ELD will still work.i know this because it happened on a film i was helping out on (Bitter & Twisted, edited by Simon Wright)
disclaimer: this was a while ago (V4.5), and i haven’t checked the behaviour recentlyPROJECT MANAGEMENT
well it;s getting late, so i wont go into too much detail..
basically what we do is to have separate projects for Assistant type work (log, capture, sync) and Editor type work.
as far as Assistant Projects go, on WTWTA we had a new project every day for that day’s Lab Rolls.
Edit projects were organised around groups of scenes.
that was a pretty huge project all up, and had to be broken down like that.
Three Dollars and RAMPAGE were not so big, and i was able to keep them contained in just one project.The trick there is to keep ALL the RUSHES, plus ONE CUT of the film in the one project.
keeping the rushes and cut in the same project allows you to match back from the timeline clip to the browser clip.
any more than one cut will probably bloat the project too much.
when you’ve finished a pass on the film, and it’s time for the next one,
either do a “save as” or copy the project to protect that cut and then dive back in.ORGANIZING MEDIA
as i said we captured in a new project every day.
this puts each day’s captured files in a new folder on the hard drive.
but once captured, (after all the syncing, etc) we manually move all the FILES to one location, then reconnect.
i keep them in one folder very close to the top of the drive, not buried folder within folder.
Makes it easier to see the file path in FCP.this is the video media i’m talking about.
if you’ve got DAT sound or even 2tk files they’d go elsewhere.
on WTWTA we had multitrack BWF files which stayed in their resppective day’s folderIN FCP
this probably goes without saying, but keep the clips for each scene in a scene bin.
on Three Dollars i liked to work in Large Icon mode, so i could see the clips.
RAMPAGE was a doc, with long IV’s so i worked in list mode.
Eric Zumbrunen the editor of WTWTA, liked list mode with the description column for reference
this is worth noting:
as well as having all the clips floating in the bin.
i REALLY like to have all the clips for a scene laid out in a sequence.
often this is the best way to review footage and find golden moments.
it allows you to quickly flick thru your rushes, re-aquanting yourself with the material.
it also allows for a certain amount of randomness…
you may start out looking for one shot, and find an even better one!allright,
now it is even later,
so that’s all for now.good luck with your project,
all the best,
Nick -
Hi Nick…
What do you mean by the FCP 24@25 calculations won’t work with subclips, because as i am working right now it seems to be in accordance with the burn in FN and TC…please clearify it before i get myself in too deep. Thanks
Sunny Pras
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been away in Alice Springs… no email
“what do you mean by the FCP 24@25 calculations won’t work with subclips”
i mean that EDLs that you make wont be accurate.
or any Cinema Tools lists.
i believe this has been fixed in V6,
but i was only told thatthe advice to read the manuals was good advise.
the CT manual tells you not to work with subclips in a 24@25 environment.nick
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I went through what i think is the whole manual of cinema tool 3 and 4 but i can’t seem to find the part that states something about subclips and 24@25 environment… if you have time please could you possibly pinpoint exactly where I should be reading? Thank you
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“Using Subclips with 24@25 Timecode
Final Cut Pro 5.0.3 resolves cases where subclips created from clips with 24@25 fps
timecode had inaccurate timecode. ”this is what i found in the “Late-Breaking news about Final Cut Pro 5” official Apple Release
https://manuals.info.apple.com/en/Final_Cut_Pro_5.0_lbn_z.pdfI guess that would mean subclips are okey to work with in a 24@25 workflow
Sunny
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“I guess that would mean subclips are okey to work with in a 24@25 workflow”
well that;s good news.
my information must be out of date, so sorry for the scareif i were you i;d make an EDL or Cut List from a small sequence and find out for yourself if all is well.
cheers,
nick
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