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HDCam & HDV show – workflow advice requested
we will be shooting a show with 2 cameras: an HDCam (Sony 700), and to save money on the second camera, it will be HDV (probably a Sony Z1 or maybe the Panasonic HVX200). my studio is currently still in BetaSP mode, so i will basically just be doing the offline at my place and renting time locally to finally master to HDCam.
my questions are on both ends of the post spectrum. since i will be renting time on an HDCam deck, i’m trying to do this efficiently as possible. at the rental/post house, what is the best codec to first capture all my footage to my LaCie drives to bring to my place for editing? i will need to capture all my HDCam footage, as well as all my HDV footage, onto my portable drives, do a complete edit at my place, then go back to the rental/post house to recapture (at “full” resolution via the “trusty” Media Manager?).
so, if i’ve captured all the HDCam footage at the same HDV codec as the HDV footage, it would seem it would all work well together on the FCP timeline, but then going back to the post house for the mastering and a “full HD” codec on the timeline, will everything “resize” correctly on the timeline???? i don’t know if i’m even wording this all correctly, so i hope it makes sense. if not, please let me know and i’ll try to re-explain.
in a nutshell, a show that will mix HDCam and HDV, offlining at my place utilizing the smallest (quickest, most efficient) codec, then onlining at the rental house in full HD for output to HDCam.
thanks! i also realize much of the solution might be in FCP 6, but let me know how it might be done in FCP 5 – IF it is possible, but either way, i’m sure i’ll be getting 6 very soon. (and bugs found yet?)
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11 Replies
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Mortimer,
Capture everything, HDCAM and HDV as DVCProHD and cut away. You probably won’t even need to go back and offline the HDCAM. Lots of well trained people cna’t tell DVCProHD from HDCAM in a side by side split screen test.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles -
if you definitely go for an online where you recapture everything then you making your life way to complicated.
Simply capture everything at DV codec as your offline format. TC identical to your source tapes of course. Either let the post house do it for you, or if you have a capture card you could hire the VTR’s and do it yourself.
After picture log off you export your DV master seq. as a self contained QT movie for reference and create a new project using the media manager (create offline, add handle of at least 5 frames) and give this to your post house for online. They can use your QT movie to check everything is correct (depending on the transfer method of your original tapes to DV there is the off chance of a 1 frame offset. Not likely if done correctly, but better safe then sorry)
or do you need to have hd quality at your offline stage? then use something like the DVCproHD codec. I would avoid the HDV codec at all costs ’cause of its GOP structure.
basically: if you have an offline – online workflow, choose the easiest codec for offline.
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David,
thanks for the reply and the advice. did you mean “ONline the HDCam”? just curious…but is the DVDProHD codec small enough for a “fast” offline on my system, and yet good enough to REALLY look like HDCam on an HDCam master tape?
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cofe,
i’ll be renting time at the studio myself, for the initial capture to my portable drives, as well as any recapturing at the end for the online HDCam master. so you’re saying to capture both the HDCam tapes and the HDV tapes at a DV codec to edit at my place (the “offline”)? also, i forgot to ask in the initial post about graphics that i create in the offline. if my timeline is say, in a DV codec, when i go to my online at full HD resolution (OR, possibly at the DVCProHD codec as suggested earlier), will my graphics resize automatically in the new bigger codec?
pardon my ignorance in all this, but it is a bit tricky jumping from all BetaSP to now mixing HD codecs…
either way, i like your idea of creating the QT reference file for onlining, and then the MM “create offline”. how has your luck with MM been? i haven’t dealt with it much, but i hear horor stories…maybe FCP 6 will be better? anyway, thanks a bunch!
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Mortmer,
Firewire 800 drives have all the throughput you need to edit DVCProHD. And, if you wait until the end of the month for FCP 6 you can use the new ProRes422, a 10-bit codec that will probably be an even better choice.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles -
re graphics: they only upres ok if they have been created with HD resolution in the first place. Unfortunately I’m not sure what the exact pixel x pixel formula is for HD graphics. if you would create them at SD resolution then you loose quality going to HD.
re media manager: I did not have any problems with it lately (FCP 5.1.x)
If you have enough storage space (https://www.digital-heaven.co.uk/videospace/index.php to find out) David’s suggestion is a good one too. DVCPROHd or the new ProRes422 coming with FCP6 are very good compressed HD codecs. This way you DON’T have to do the online stage and can master straight from your final seq. Also this solves the graphics question.
But you need a lot more drive space (1 hour footage = 12.7 GB NTSC DV / 48.8 GB DVcProHD 1080i 60) -
[cofe] “But you need a lot more drive space”
Drive space is so cheap these days. Much cheaper than an online and lost less hassle too.
David Roth Weiss
Director/Editor/Post-production Supervisor
David Weiss Productions, Inc.
Los Angeles -
Got to agree with David. Offlining is SOOO last year. Either use the excellent DVCProHD codec or if you can wait a few weeks, and don’t mind being a pioneer, wait for FCP6 and use ProRes, which is 10-bit rather than 8-bit. The drive space needed IS larger than DV, but still not expensive, and more than compensated for by the money you will save not having to recapture as Uncompressed 10-bit HD (which I guess is what you plan for your HDCAM footage).
How good is DVCProHD? Really good. I recently switch from uncompressed to DVCProHD mid-way through a prestigious live broadcast, because I had concerns about the SCSI array I was using. The engineers in the truck couldn’t spot the difference on grade 1 monitors. Many many people are mastering in this format. I suspect that ProRes (which is full raster and 10-bit) will raise the game even further, for a small amount of extra storage space. Really, there’s no reason to offline at lower res unless you want to try effects heavy sequences out on a lower powered system. If you are cutting for editorial, and adding gfx (which will now be the correct size etc) then you will be amazed how easy it is to work with a compressed HD format.
Ben
Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd
EVS & FCP specialists for live broadcast.
OB Server 1 HD – Mobile FCP editing done right.
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I feel a bit dumb cos I’ve been using FCP for years but only capturing native formats (DV , HDV, 10 bit uncompressed), I did render a HDV programme to 10 bit uncompressed once but I’m wondering how to capture one format as another??
e.g. How do I capture my HDV footage as DVCproHD in real time? do I need a card, I have a decklink extreme but I presume I need some form of HD card? or do I need to use the MM to convert everything after capture?
Excuse my ignorance…Johnny
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[Johnny White] “How do I capture my HDV footage as DVCproHD in real time?”
Via a card like the Kona 3 or LH that has a component HD input like the HDV decks have. Because you are not capturing a long-gop format like HDV (which is also horrible for rendering and RT use) you will see a remarkable difference in post.
Editec Broadcast Editing Ltd
EVS & FCP specialists for live broadcast.
OB Server 1 HD – Mobile FCP editing done right.
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