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Shoot SD or shoot HD and down-convert?
I am getting ready to purchase 2 Canon XL-H1s. We do a lot of small productions for the internal productions department for a mid-sized corporation. The main reason we are getting the H1’s is because we often to multi-camera shoots and having the time-code sync option is HUGE for us…
Here is my question. We havn’t gone HD yet (and it probably won’t happen anytime too soon). But I have heard that you can often get a better picture if you shoot HD and downconvert to SD. Does anybody have any knowledge they could share on this subject?
If that IS a good option, what is the best way to downconvert the footage? Compressor?
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9 Replies
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[Brian Pitt] “Does anybody have any knowledge they could share on this subject?
If that IS a good option, what is the best way to downconvert the footage? Compressor?”
Not really, you’d be shooting HDV I assume which to me is not nearly as good as just shooting DV to begin with. 25:1 MPEG-2 compression vs. 5:1 DV compression. Easy math for me. DV is a MUCH easer format to deal with on the Post side as well. Unless you’re finishing in HD, I’d just stick with DV.
Honestly, the Panasonic HVX-200 shoots the best looking DV I’ve seen anywhere and it has the option to shoot DV50 which is an outstanding SD format, better than straight DV. All the electronics are HD, but it’s rolling SD footage.
I would much prefer receiving footage from the Panasonic camera than the Canon.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network’s “Good Eats”
HD Editorial for “Assignment Earth”“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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Borrow the camera and do a test. Personally I think the HDV downconvert to 10 bit uncompressed SD looks better than native DV on the same camera. You will need a capture card and take the SDI from the camera as input to do this. If you downconvert to DV in camera and capture firewire then you may as well shoot DV in the first place.
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As an HDV camera owner…I am with Walter on this one.
HDV has been kind of a stop gap for me the last couple of years…but I am now looking at the XDCams and the HDX900s.
My question is what are you currently using? If you are already doing a lot multicam shoots…what are they done with?
If you are not expecting to go HD for anytime soon…and you need timecode sync…I would look to the higher-end, older models of the Sony or JVC fullsized cameras…the JVC GYDV5000 is an awesome camera (I actually had the lowerend GYDV500 before my HDV purchase)and it offers all the bells and whistles of high end beta cameras and not the price. There are a lot of used ones out there…not sure on what is comparable in the newer models.
My concern for you is that you are going to have to buy a lot stuff with an HDV offering simply because of the HD. IF you are not going to use it…then stay in what you know first off and save some budget for a doorway dolly or other good support gear to add production value to your multicam shoots.
Just a side note…I personally despise the ergonomics of the Canon offerings…try shooting a gruelling day with one of those…its a pain.
Tim Baker
Chameleon Mobile Video Productions
(239)849-3295
“It is not the light at the end of the tunnel that we should seek…it is the courage to take the next step in the dark that we must find.” -
I have been back and forth between the Canon and the Panasonic. I have heard great things about both. The P2 cards and the ability to shoot DVCPro 50 are both very appealing. The one thing I don’t love about the HVX is it’s ergonomics. I shoot a lot of “on the go” stuff, and I love the ability hold the canons on your shoulder for added support. I am using an XL2 right now at work, but I personally own a DVX100. and I like both of THEM too!!!
Between the H1 and the HVX, which would you personally recommend?
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One big thing to me…is the ability to check my color and sometimes framing with a field monitor…given the choice I would go with a camera that at least had an on-board lcd for monitoring.
Another thing I do not like about the Canons is the lack of an onboard monitor other than the eyepiece. I have been spoiled by my HD100…I rarely ever shoot with an eyepiece monitor anymore unless it is run and gun style. Most of the onboard lcds…I have found to be pretty much bang on for color and for framing.
Just a suggestion.
Tim Baker
Chameleon Mobile Video Productions
(239)849-3295
“It is not the light at the end of the tunnel that we should seek…it is the courage to take the next step in the dark that we must find.” -
[Tim] “HDV has been kind of a stop gap for me the last couple of years…but I am now looking at the XDCams and the HDX900s.”
I’m sorry… but I’m going a little off-topic for Tim.
I agree with your concerns and I understand fully you wanting to go with the XDCAM HD or the HDX900. I jaut wanted to tell you that my company has been using the XDCAM HD since August and we used XDCAM for a year before that, so I (we) have lots of experience with the Sony XDCAM series of cameras.
Now, after saying all of this… What do you expect to shoot with these cameras? I ask this because each camera has its place. Both of these cameras are almost the same camera with the exception that the XDCAM HD doesn’t shot 720. But if you have a capture card like the AJA Kona 3, this isn’t an issue at all.
Here’s something else to consider… XDCAM HD shoots on a disc (digital info), at HQ 35 mb/s, you can get about 62 mintues of footage that doesn’t have to be cued up to record and the XDCAM HD has a cache record function that continually pre-records up to 12 seconds of video and audio. This is very helpful when shooting footage that cannot be recreated. The workflow in FCP using XDCAM HD is awesome and easy to use.
Now, the Panasonic HDX900 is an absolutely awesome camera. Its main purpose was to fill the gap between the lower-end P2 cameras and the high-end DVCProHD cameras (also, a competetor to the XDCAM HD system). My main drawback with this camera is that it writes to tape. It has all the issues that field shooters have been dealing with for many years. You have to rewind your tape to view a clip and then recue it to continue recording. The XDCAM HD camera allows you to bring up a thumbnail image of your clips and play those directly without cueing and if you need to record more, just press the record button and it creates a new clip – this is much faster to work with in the field. Other than the tape issue, if Panasonic made a camera based on the same principal as XDCAM HD (I mean a disc based system), I (we) would have went with the Panasonic route because Panasonic cameras do shoot an amazingly beautiful picture. The issue that I have with P2 is backup storage. This is no reliable form of long term storage available at this time. Blu-Ray (a Sony product) has come about but its still a little on the small side. Until Dual Layer Blu-Ray comes out, there is a storage issue in my eyes.
These are all just words of thought by me and these are my personal experiences. Please don’t take this as the Word of God. Ask others who use XDCAM HD and users of higher end DVCProHD cameras. There’s a lot of money at stake here and I’m will to help you with you decision.
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Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com -
[Tim] “One big thing to me…is the ability to check my color and sometimes framing with a field monitor…given the choice I would go with a camera that at least had an on-board lcd for monitoring.”
Let me give you a word of warning, Tim.
Please don’t use the onboard LCDs for a color check. Rarely do they show exact color. They are there to give you information about the camera and for framing only. My experience has been that the color of an onboard LCD is a little off but I guess it will keep you in a ballpark. The best solution for this is to purcahse a small mountable field monitor and use that instead. For example, Panasonic offers the BT-LH1700 which is a 17″ LCD that can be powered either by battery or regular electricity. They have a waveform monitor built in to it and has all the bells and whistles you can imagine for around $3000.
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Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com -
Guess I should have been more clear…I’m no fool.
What I use it…the lcd…for is to make sure I dont have blue video…white balance actually took…framing…etc.
But thanks for the concern.
Tim Baker
Chameleon Mobile Video Productions
(239)849-3295
“It is not the light at the end of the tunnel that we should seek…it is the courage to take the next step in the dark that we must find.” -
[Tim] “Guess I should have been more clear…I’m no fool.”
I appologize, Tim. I didn’t intend to offend you. Its just that there are many people out here that don’t understand that these little LCD monitors on the cameras are just for framing and information.
I have no reason why Sony would make a camera such as this and place a low quality LCD screen on them. The Sony HVR-Z1Us have a much higher quality screen than the XDCAM HD 330 and 350 series cameras. Sony admits to this. It boggles my mind that they are selling a broadcast quality camera with a low quality prosumer grade flip out LCD monitor.
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Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com
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