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Need advice, editing in 1080p
My client wants me to edit HDCAM 1080p 23.98. I’ve never edited this format before since the majority of my clients only need SD or 720p vericam–I currently work on firewire 800 drives so I am not set up for this format yet. I’d like to get set up for an affordable price (just for this project)–please let me know if this setup will be sufficient: I have a G5 Quad 2.5GB RAM, and have access to a blackmagic HD card and plan to buy two SATA drives and stripe them together. Will that provide enough bandwidth to edit this format? Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Krisi -
17 Replies
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If you bring your footage in to the DVCPRO HD codec, you will be okay. Make sure the Blackmagic card can do this on the fly at the frame rate you want.
Jeremy
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May I suggest editing in DVCPROHD @ 1080/23.98? It’ll look BEAUTIFUL coming from a HD deck SDI into the BM or Kona card, and unless you’re finishing for a filmout or a Blu-ray release, it should have plenty of fidelity for you. I’m sure Walter will totally recommend this to. PLUS you can work off FW 800 drives.
You’ll need a LOT more horsepower than two striped Sata drives for uncompressed HD. Besides it’ll eat up TONS of room and doesn’t make sense for editing.
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Is there a visual difference between uncompressed HD and DVCPRO HD? And if my client is concerned about the longevity (format wise) of this piece, will it make a big difference if I choose DVCPro HD over uncompressed?
Thanks for your input.
Krisi
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Sorry, I forgot to mention…the reason I ask about Uncompressed vs. DVCPRO HD–is because my client is shooting on 35mm and is asking me if they should transfer to HDCAM 1080p or to the Panasonic DVCPro HD 1080p. So, I’m trying to figure out what would be best for our budget, while still acheiving the quality and longevity he hopes for.
Thanks,
Krisi -
I wouldn’t transfer my film to a DV-PROHD tape (that’s what I’m assuming you mean? The same thing that a Varicam uses, right?)
Transfer to HDCAM, or better yet D5, so that there will be a high quality telecine tape available in case you really need to go back to it. But honestly, DVCPRO-HD looks stunning. No it’s not designed for finishing feature films, no it’s not great if you need heavy color timing, no it’s not ideal for greenscreen…. but you’d be hard pressed to tell the difference between it and uncompressed for any practical purpose.
For instance, load something from Digibeta uncompressed. Now load that same clip at DV-50. It’s pretty much the same quality you’re going to see in HD. Unless you crank the color corrector – DV50 looks really sweet.
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Okay, so let’s say I go HDCAM SDI through the black magic card, captured at the DVCPRO HD codec….and then when it’s all finished and time to put the master back to tape, I’d have to put it out to the Panasonic 1400 FW/SDI deck right? Is that the best output to tape I can do? I won’t be able to go back to the HDCAM deck since it’s not uncompressed right? I just want to be clear on all this.
Thanks,
Krisi -
Krisi,
Work backwards. What is their delivery? Would their final delivery benefit from HDCam 1080p? or Will DVCPro HD suffice?
There is a significant cost difference here. Renting a $1000/day HDCAM deck vs a $500 DVCProHD deck. If HDCAM fits with their budget, then go for it. You’ll need a traditional offline/online workflow, which you can avoid if you go DVCPro HD. As others have said before, if there are heavy duty compositing or effects work, then uncompressed HDCAM for the online is best. But if it’s a mostly straightforward drama, then DVCPro HD will certainly be great.
Again, what is required for delivery.
-CHL
Chi-Ho Lee
Film & Video Editor
Apple Certified Final Cut Pro Trainer
http://www.chiholee.com -
[Krisi] “Okay, so let’s say I go HDCAM SDI through the black magic card, captured at the DVCPRO HD codec….and then when it’s all finished and time to put the master back to tape, I’d have to put it out to the Panasonic 1400 FW/SDI deck right?
do your offline in DVCProHD, then at picture lock recapture HDCAM and finish up color correction and delivery. Do the math on the amount of footage you’ll have and the disk space you’ll need.
As for the DVCProHD format, there was an excellent thread a couple weeks ago on a somewhat related topic and Graeme Nattress made some excellent comments that speak pretty much to your clients concern regarding picture quality. Also numbers 2 & 3 below should factor into your decision:
[Graeme Nattress] “It might be a consensus, but it doesn’t make it right from a picture quality POV. If you’ve got mixed sources, and want to edit them “all as one” in HD, go uncompressed – no quality loss at all, and you can just not worry about it.
People use DVCproHD as an “intermediate” codec, usualy because it’s fast to decode and is very well supported by FCP, but really, it’s a camera codec, and never was designed for editing, and especially not for intermediate codec work:
1) it’s too compressed. You’ll see artifacts in camera original footage, never mind after a render
2) it’s not full HD resolution, but either 960×720 or 1280×1080, thus complicating things further with pixel aspect ratios, and it reduces the resolution of all footage coming into it , HDV being natively 1440×1080.
3) it’s not the usual delivery format for broadcast, that being HDCAM (hopefully the nicer SR version) or D5. That would mean, in my mind, for best quality that you do your final render of everything in a uncompressed timeline.Apple, in their infinite wisdom, have had a superb intermediate codec for years, called “PhotoJPEG” – but they fail to RT enable it or give it the ful support it deserves. Although it’s compressed, it’s full raster 4:2:2 and mild with it’s artifacts, and fast too. But it’s not a choice as Apple don’t RT enable it. That leaves you with sub-par DVCproHD (best used in situations where that’s what you shot) and Uncompressed, with it’s massive file sizes, and nothing in-between.
I’m not saying you can’t get good looking results with DVCProHD, but I am saying it’s not without it’s obvious flaws. If ease of editing is your primary goal, then DVCproHD on the current FCP platform is about it for HD (due to Apple’s infinite wisdom – even Avid people now have DNxHD), but if picture quality is our ultimate goal, there’s only one answer – uncompressed.”
Here’s the link to the quote: https://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=8&postid=914834
Here’s the link to the thread: https://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/new_read_post.cgi?forumid=8&postid=914825Later in the thread Graeme made one other comment that pertains to you situation. He mentioned how in the evolution of technology each new step seemed the pinnacle. How VHS, then LaseerDisc, then DVD, now HD all seemed perfect in their times- yet in a few years something new came along that resets the bar much higher. He’s now working in ultra high definition and DVCProHD doesn’t stack up. So for most folks, DVCProHD looks great today, except compared to uncompressed HD, especially if you were to be working with full HD all day long, but DVCProHD won’t look as good in 5-10 years time.
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[CharlieX2] “For instance, load something from Digibeta uncompressed. Now load that same clip at DV-50. It’s pretty much the same quality you’re going to see in HD. Unless you crank the color corrector – DV50 looks really sweet. “
I may be missing something here, but Digibeta is SD, not HD, and DV50 is DVCPro, not DVCProHD, which is DV100. So Digibeta/DV50 is not the same quality you’d see in uncompressed HD or even DVCProHD, though most folks, including the audience, probaby wouldn’t tell the difference.
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You could go back to the HDCAM deck no problems. Feed SDI from the Blackmagic right into the HD-SDI on the HDCAM! You’ll never go back to that pesky 1400 deck again.
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