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What format for film lab?
Hiya!
I’m rather experienced with editing and the like, but I’ve never worked with film, before. The project I’m currently working on was shot on 16mm film and processed by the lab to DVC-PRO 25 format. The lab is Cinefilm in Atlanta, Georgia: https://www.cinefilmlab.com/
We want the final product to be on HD, which they can handle, but for some incredibly bizarre reason the people at the lab don’t know what format the film needs to be on. All they keep telling us is that it needs to be “24 frames per second.” The footage as it stands is basic NTSC 29.97 with ABBA pull-down and the frame counter embedded in the footage counts all 30 frames. We can reverse telecine it via cinema tools to 24 frames per second but it “looses” some frames, presumably the duplicate frames. Should we just reverse telecine the whole kitten caboodle or what? Thanks, any advice is appreciated… I’m just guffawed that the lab doesn’t know what the heck they need and I don’t want to waste my client’s very tight budget doing something wrong.
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5 Replies
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You may want to direct this to Walter Biscardi from the Atlanta area.
FYI,
Bryce WhitesideDon’t worry Mr. B. I have a cunning plan…
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I’ve heard of 3 ways of originating on film, editing on DV-25 format, and finishing on HD:
1) Telecine is done from film to both DV-25 and HD. The film is edited in Final Cut in DV-25, then finished by capturing from the HD tapes and color correcting, etc.
2) Telecine is done from film to DV-25. Editing is done in FCP, film information is entered into Cinema Tools, cut lists are produced, the negative is cut, and that cut negative is telecined to HD.
3) Telecine is done from film to DV-25. The film is edited in FCP, then it is upconverted to HD, either through rendering or through recapture from the DV-25 originals to an HD format.
Is one of these the method you are using, or is your post-production pipeline using another method?
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If you shot on 16mm the film can’t be processed to DVC-PRO25. It is filmstock so the 16mm negative is processed and then transferred via telecine to videotape. Did the lab you mentioned also do the telecine transfer and if so, sis they create a Telecine Log (FLX or ALE file – plus other formats as well). That file will give you a refernec list of the film’s edge code numbers.
If you shot your film at 24 frames per second you can transfer to DVC_PRO25 at 29.97 NDF and – provided you used the Telecine Log (FLX or ALE) to create a cinema tools database, and captured your footage using a batch capture list generated from the Cinema Tools database. The Cinema tools database also allows you to do batch reverse telecine which is what you would edit your program with in a 23.98 timeline.
A proper 23.98 edl can then be created and your 16mm lab rolls can be set up to re-transfer your negative filmstock to HDCAM 23.98 master. You can also create OMF from the FCP timeline for audio post and also and audio edl for your location sound recorded on time-code DAT.
I think you do need a Telecine log for this process to flow correctly though. This is the way I’ve it before and there were no problems.
Good Luck
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We did not receive a telecine file from the lab, and the lab doesn’t seem to know what format they need the file in… All they keep saying is that it has to be in 24fps. When I reverse telecine it through final cut pro, it seems to remove too many frames and the footage moves rapidly in what we’ve termed the “key stone cops effect.”
If the lab didn’t give us a flex file or telecine file, does that mean we have to generate it ourselves? Is it not possible to create a 24fps EDL from a 29.97 timeline?
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I wouldn’t know what to suggest because if you have no Telecine Log from the lab, it is very difficult to reference the edge code on the 16mm negative short of properly retyransfering everythin and starting over. You don’t want to go handling negative film to physically read the numbers by hand.
Further to that, the proper way to reverse telecine your footage is you have to log and capture your clips on the A-frame (frames that end on the digit 00, 05,10,15.20 – every 5 frames as you see) from your 29.97 NDF DV tape. That way the proper cadence is deteremined for a reverse telecine in Cinema Tools. Telecine logs reflect this when you get them but as you didn’t get them there is little to do now.
Strange that the lab doesn’t know about this or advice you on how to properly proceed with your project, if they know your deliverable format. You also don’t mention why the lab needs a 24fps EDL – sure you can generate an edl but what is the purpose.
I don’t know what to suggest now, other than cut your show and take the output file in DV and somehow blow it up to HD and there are lots of posts discussing that on the forum. Not the best route to take but…
We did not receive a telecine file from the lab, and the lab doesn’t seem to know what format they need the file in… All they keep saying is that it has to be in 24fps. When I reverse telecine it through final cut pro, it seems to remove too many frames and the footage moves rapidly in what we’ve termed the “key stone cops effect.”
If the lab didn’t give us a flex file or telecine file, does that mean we have to generate it ourselves? Is it not possible to create a 24fps EDL from a 29.97 timeline?
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