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Super 16 Offline/Online workflow question
Hey Cow,
I am prepping a feature shoot. We are contemplating shooting HDCAM SR or Super 16. I have a nice HDCAM SR workflow, but we are getting pressure from the distrib to shoot film (we are most likely going straight to DVD with the need for an HD master as well). If we go down the road of shooting Super16, can someone point me to a viable FCP offline/online workflow? Here is what I got: Shooting on super16. Cut offline in DVCPRO HD in FCP low rez, then online in DVCPRO HD full rez for DVD and HD master. Now, my question is this: At one point, since I working on film (kinda), does color timing come into play? Should I offline on DVCPRO HD, pump out an edl, online, then color correct on a davinci? IF there is someone who has a workflow posted somewhere, I would be super happy.
Thanks!
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14 Replies
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Have to admit I’m a little confused, but I think that’s b/c you’re out of my league. I always do supervised best light transfers and haven’t found the need for further color correction after that. Well, I did change a couple parts of my last short, but I was satisfied with what I could do with my destop tools (AE, FCP, Boris Red, Combustion, Magic Bullet, etc).
All I know is that my friend shot Super16 like I did, edited and made any other color correction from his 8 bit uncompressed digibeta tapes in FCP and other desktop tools, and gave his copy for the distributor (DVD to Hollywood Video, Blockbuster, etc) on digibeta as well.
Sorry, again I think you’re out of my league. -
Well, how do you think your workflow would translate if you substitute delivery on a digibeta to a DVCPRO HD delivery?
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Telecine the film to DVCPRO HD. Capture DVCPRO HD at FULL RESOLUTION. There is no such this as DVCPRO HD low res. And the requirements for DVCPRO HD aren’t high: 1 Ghz or higher G4 or any G5, and Firewire 800 drives, or External SATA Raid drives for storage. Done. Edit it full res from start to finish. I am working with DVCPRO HD at full resolution and using G-Raid fw800 drives, and they work perfectly. JARHEAD was edited at DVCPRO HD resolution…FULL RESOLUTION…for offline.
Then either color correct yourself (rent an HD monitor) if you feel comfortable doing it, or output to DVCPRO HD tape and let a professional colorist handle it. Professional colorists work MAGIC. This depends on your budget.
But really, nothing stopping you from editing full res DVCPRO HD from the start…
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So, if I telecine to DVCPRO HD, do I do it at 24p or 29.97 with pulldown? Also, would the aesthetic value of shooting Super16 be lost if I go to DVCPRO HD? Would it be better to telecine to DVCPRO HD for an offline, then conform the negative and do either an HD DI or 2K DI?
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We are currently editing a feature shot on Super 16. We had best-lite dailies done to Digibeta, and loaded everything at 23.98 DV-50. Great for offline because the storage req. are fairly low, and it keeps bandwidth low on the XSAN. This also allows us to use SD cutting stations without HD gear…. plus you get more real time effects. HD dailies WOULD look great, but may be overkill for what you need.
We are currently planning on a telecine to HDCAM SR, or possibly a 2K DI. The only small drawback is that the EDL may be a frame off at the head or tail of the cuts, as FCP has 23.98 media with 30fps referenced timecode. I wouldn’t conform/cut the negative with 16. We’re simply going to get all the shots HD DI with jammed code… Maybe be a little more work on the backend to check all the cuts, etc…. but your neg will be cleaner and safer.
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Oh, one last thing. SHOOT FILM!!!! 🙂
We argued a long time over what to shoot, and finally went to EFilm to see some HD to film scans vs. film originated…. the super 16 looked bounds better. plus those new kodak stocks, like the 500, is super kick ass with very fine grain, even pushing the heck out of it.
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> What if you did a best-lite to DVCPRO HD at 23.98, rather than offlining in SD? Isn’t the bandwith less of an issue with DVCPRO HD as well? I have a 23″ Apple Cinema Display that I could use as an HD monitor. Can’t I cut in DVCPRO HD and utilize its more robust color space and effectively “offline” in DVCPROHD, pump out an EDL, Telecine that footage to 2K or HDCAM/SR and do a DI and then output a universal master?
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Yeah, you totally could. DV-HD is about twice the storage as DV-50, but will look pretty awesome to offline. It has a higher resolution yes, but the color space is the same as DV-50. An EDL for telecine will be less complicated from a DV-100 23.98 source, yes, but nothing more than an extra day of prep on the back-end won’t solve.
We have several FCP stations which are SD only, so it makes more sense foer us to work on the edit in DV-50 (but it sounds like you’ll be on single-station editing. So it’s not a problem.) SD also makes it quicker and easier to output quicktimes, DVD’s, or viewing cassettes (less processing). Also, when you have clients in to watch the edit, it’s easier to output to a television rather than having them gather around a 23″ Apple monitor.
I’d say go for it, edit in HD. It’ll look great. Murch did it for Jarhead and seemed happy. But I personally don’t see any immediate need to offline in HD unless there’s very specific technical considerations.
good luck
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My $0.02:
1) Shoot film
2) Best light transfer to HDCAM SR – this keeps a greater range from your 16MM original than would transfering to DVCProHD
3) Digitize from HDCAM SR deck with Kona/Blackmagic, and capture using the DVCProHD codec – this allows to offline at reasonable data rates, yet keep the “WOW Factor” of showing your edit in high-definition
4) Online from your HDCAM SR source fully uncompressed 10-bit – doing your color-correction with a greater range to begin with and uncompressed will enhance the image to the highest degree…this road is a tad more expensive (HDCAM SR deck rental and tapes), BUT the result IMHO is worth it.
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Guys, forgive me on my seemingly basic questions, but when you do a best-lite (is that the same as a telecine?), do you do only circled takes? To save on costs, would I capture all the footage at DVCPRO HD from the HDCAM SR deck, cut a DVCPROHD “offline,” then online at HDCAM SR 4:4:4 at a facility with my DVCPRO HD EDL?
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