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Quick responses pleas…Estimating film edit time…
There really isn’t a film section on the Cow that I could find so I am asking this here…sorry if it is the wrong place.
I have a potential client that wants me to edit a 1 hour 10 minute feature that will either be shot in HD on a Panny camera or on my JVC HD100.
The question is for you feature editors out there…how long…in days…should I base my estimate on. I have been editing for many years in the commercial, broadcast, and corporate worlds with all the graphic intensive stuff that goes with that, but a feature is a different beast.
They are planning on 35 days or so of shooting and I am thinking that there must be at least 1 day per day of shooting…especially if they want to do dailies.
Also, what would be a good indy rate to pitch it at…obviously they are not going to be able to pay my usual rate…can I work a rate for less of a day/week rate and get residuals as the editor? You never know…this project could be another Napoleon Dynamite!!!
Quick responses please…they want an estimate…proposal by tomorrow.
Tim Baker
Chameleon Mobile Video Productions
(239)849-3295
“It is not the light at the end of the tunnel that we should seek…it is the courage to take the next step in the dark that we must find.” -
9 Replies
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Tim,
In the days when I usd to work in low-budget features, I cut one 90-min film in five days, but another went on and on and on for nine months. No one in the world can do anything but hazard a guess in a situation like this. You haven’t seen a frame of the film, and no one has either. Will you have to create the story as you go to cover a first time director’s ass, or does the director know how to tell a story? And, does the director really know how to cover a scene? What’s your work style? Are you a perfectionist, or someone who can be brutal? Personalities also come into play as yet another variable. And, the producers may get involved in editorial and eat up half of your available time.
Bottom line is, you must work on a weekly, no flat rate… If you do you’ll get screwed. If you want the project so bad you’re willing to give blood, that’s another matter…
David
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The director seems to have some pretty good creds…he was the assistant to Mastroiianni for “Celestine Prophecy” and he is using this project to try to use as his “break through”.
He seems really cool, but I have only spoken on the phone with him. I expect low pay, but need to be compensated…you present some good questions though. What would you see as a workable weekly rate…my usual day rate is $1200 per day at home office…$1400 a day if I edit on-site in my production trailer. I would be willing…for the credit and if a residual deal is a possibility for an editor…to do it for say a weekly rate of $4000.00. Especially if it is going to be 30+ days…what do you think?
I think I can be pretty brutal when I have to be, but tactful. I am just not aware of the actual job description for being the editor…I mean if it just is not working and the scenes suck or the one principal is just blowing it for everyone, but she is the DP’s wife…do I and should I ethically for the sake of the project speak up. I am well versed in set etiquette for the world of video production, but am green to the film and the indy film arena.
Tim Baker
Chameleon Mobile Video Productions
(239)849-3295
“It is not the light at the end of the tunnel that we should seek…it is the courage to take the next step in the dark that we must find.” -
[Tim] “do I and should I ethically for the sake of the project speak up.”
Might be more of a problem if you didn’t speak up. They might not like hearing it, but you wont be in trouble for telling the truth. if something sucks, say so.
Peter
Now editing the feature “BEYOND THE MARGIN”
-THE LIFE AND WORK OF JOHN A.ALONZO -
Wow, you have issues.
Is the director a former assistant director AD or an assistant to a director. An AD is much better than an assistant to. An AD will at least understand how a set works in an important way and is more likely to drive things forward as a director. You have no idea how important it is for a director to drive things forward on a long shooting schedule and not fall in love with a shot or a moment and take a day shooting what should take four hours. If its an assistant to a director, oh boy…
Indy films by their nature are kind of lucky that they are alive, to mention issues regarding cast members or crew members will not be appreciated, it will be seen as cutting at the thin treads that are keeping the film alive. Of course each film and each situation is its own world and maybe you can mention something so its a play it by ear kind of thing. But watch out if you stick your finger in a pie everyone else seems happy with, your job is to edit or shoot or do sound not to challenge the producers or directors likes or dislikes.
You will be cutting while they shoot, unless the director is a control freak and does not want any forward motion in that direction until he is finished with the distraction of shooting. I would schedule three months to bring the film to a final cut, if cutting while shooting, this does not include a final mix.
Your rate is far in excess of a union rate. I recognize that you are also charging for the equipment but even if you say that your rate will only be half of the total of $4,000 your rate is close to union and for a little film, that
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I got serious issues, but you guys are helping!!!
Man keep the info coming…this is all fabulous. This is a new arena for me.
Chris…what would be…in your view…a workable rate. I have been told that they are working on basically a “Napolean Dynamite” budget…roughly $400 to $500,000. Is there a % of that they should expect to pay or is there a “going rate” for Indy post? I am just used to the corporate/commercial world that usually has deep pockets. I know most HD post suites here in my area go for around $150.00 per hour…so I know my hourly rate of $120.00 us well under theirs, but again…feature world is a different beast altogether.
I don’t know if they are planning on dailies(they said that was up in the air right now)…when should I plan on being on the set/location? I figure if they don’t do dailies…I could let them get several days shot and then I could jump into it. They did mention they planning on 35 days shooting with 3 contingent I think. Should I plan on at least a day of post per shooting day if we do dailies…and then how many days post following the wrap of shooting? A week or so for final master…following audio sweetening, color correct, etc?
I hate to sound so stupid on this…this is where I really want to progress with my company…I have always wanted to edit a feature…I appreciate any and all help.
You guys are awesome.
Tim Baker
Chameleon Mobile Video Productions
(239)849-3295
“It is not the light at the end of the tunnel that we should seek…it is the courage to take the next step in the dark that we must find.” -
Chris…sorry…you already answered the time questions…thanks for all your help.
Tim Baker
Chameleon Mobile Video Productions
(239)849-3295
“It is not the light at the end of the tunnel that we should seek…it is the courage to take the next step in the dark that we must find.” -
Since you know the budget, you can estimate what percentage is available for total post, and then what percentage of that your salary and equipment rental would be, and then divide that by the amount of time you’ll need, and you’ll get an approximation. Make sure they have a post budget, because these indies seem to way underestimate finishing costs (especially sound work for their weak and noisy tracks).
For some idea of union rates, you can go to https://www.editorsguild.com/wage.asp# and pick the appropriate contract rates as a comparison.
Another factor is how much footage they shoot, and whether you have assistants, and whether you have to sync everything. Get it in writing, and even then prepared to fight to get paid.
If they’re shooting video, with a first time director, you could have insane amounts of footage, as they just might cover every angle and character to be safe, rather than preparing the scene properly with adequate coverage.
Also, talk to the script supervisor. If they’re good, they’ll make your job immensely easier.
Make sure the camera department is making proper logs, With video, some folks think this is not necessary. The work they don’t do is work you’ll have to do.
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The truth is $500,000 is nothing, you have to want to do this because you wont make any money. Most department heads will make around $250 per day no over time. Most small shoots like this one shoot for no more than 24 days, 6 days per week. To stretch it to 35 + 3 is insane, but who am I to judge, he he he. Most films like yours work out some kind of differed pay deal on top of the small daily/weekly pay. Pay me my rate which will be %80 differed, etc. You will never see a penny of the differed payment, you have to want to cut the project, that
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Indeed, the goal of an ‘hour and 10 minute’ feature is almost irrelevant. I often tell my clients, “it’s not how long you want it to end up, it’s how much footage you shoot.” I’ve edited :30-second commercials in ten minutes from three different shots, and been done. I’ve also edited :30 second commercials from fifteen hours of footage from six different continents. Same target length, wildly different finishing schedules.
I’d be very leery of first-time directors. I once spent 3 months on a 12-minute short with a director who was basically using our time together as a crash-course film-school.
One other thought to consider is the type of film you’re editing. If it’s an action film you’re looking at a lot more set-ups and a lot more cutting.
All that said, it sounds like a great opportunity, and I wish you the best.
Steve
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