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how compressed is DVCPRO HD?
Now i know DVCPRO HD is a compressed HD codec….but how compressed is it? I mean is it visually noticable or only noticable for boffins with their scopes on 🙂
obviously putting it side by side with HDCAM SR there will be a difference but in real terms can anyone really tell the difference say compared to the other non compressed HD codecs?
also how is it to edit with? HDV i am avoiding like the plauge as it seems to turn your shiny G5 into a beige G3 – what is the performance like using DVCPRO HD.
Looking to replace our PD150’s with HVX 200’s when they ship and looking at DVCPRO Hd as our affordable road to HD
thanks for your insights
G5 DP 2.0
2.0G RAM
OS 10.4.2
QT 7.0.3
FCP 5.0.3
BMD Decklink Extreme -
13 Replies
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The compression in DVCPro HD is really predicated on your lighting situation. The darker the lighting, the more the compression comes out. It also depends on the frame rate and what gamma settings you’re using in the camera and even the shutter angle. Let’s just say the menu is incredible in the Varicam and it’s all in how you set up and shoot that determines the amount of compression in DVCPro HD.
If you want to see just how amazingly clean DVCPro HD is, create some graphics in After Effects in a DVCPro HD comp. It’s just gorgeous.
DVCPro HD is normal to edit with, nothing special to do like HDV and yes I agree with you, avoid HDV at all costs.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“The Rough Cut,” an original short film premiering December 7th in full High Definition in Atlanta.
rsvp@biscardicreative.com to reserve seats.
https://www.theroughcutmovie.com“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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DVCproHD is 6.7:1 compressed, whereas DV is 5:1 compressed, and HDV about 25:1 or thereabouts ish.
So yes, DVVCproHD is quite highly compressed, but it’s easy to edit compression, and doesn’t take the same generation hit editing native as HDV does.
I find it hard to see compression artifacts in camera footage from the Varicam, say, but if you apply effects, you can start to see the compression artifacts from the original footage, under certain circumstances. But, you’d get similar issues with HDCAM also.
So no, it’s not perfect, but it’s better than HDV.
Let’s hope the HVX200 is a great little camera!
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP
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[paul nevison] “Now i know DVCPRO HD is a compressed HD codec….but how compressed is it? I mean is it visually noticable or only noticable for boffins with their scopes on :-)”
it is a 4:2:2 compression, it is being used in a number of worklfows without incident, Even Walter Murch used it for editing Jarhead < apple.com/pro/film/murch2/index.html> Many people are using it instead of 8Bit UC because of the quality
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[paul nevison] “obviously putting it side by side with HDCAM SR there will be a difference but in real terms can anyone really tell the difference say compared to the other non compressed HD codecs?”
Well SR is not a compression, it is a Tape format not accessible to the end user. The same footage shot the same way will not get better by laying that footage to SR.
Acquisition quality is independent from this as if it looks bad when you capture, it looks worse when you compress.Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL USA -
4:2:2 is compression of sorts (chroma sampling), but that’s not the compression that was being asked about, I think. As for using DVCproHD instead of Uncompressed 8bit – the difference is significant. That said, DVCproHD is worth editing native if you’ve shot that way, but I fear it’s rather too compressed to convert another compressed format to for editing online. Murch was using DVCproHD as an offline codec though, surely?
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP
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[Graeme Nattress] “Murch was using DVCproHD as an offline codec though, surely?”
Surely. That is what he told us at LAFCPUG.
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Paul,
Not to be too negative, but 8 minutes of HD record time with the
Panasonic HVX 200 ? Do I have that correct?
If so, that is not a serious field shooting camera for HD.
Even if changing the cards every 8 minutes wasn’t bad enough,
the cost of media for an hour shoot would be hugh.
I see they have a $10k version with 16 minutes. Still….I don’t like HDV either, but there may be a nicer solution soon.
Sony is coming out with an HD version of their XDCAM, which
uses blue ray DVDs and give you 45 minutes I believe,
at highest quality. You can ramp it down for more storage.
It’s a $20k camera yes, but a Varicam is what, $60k?Dan
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Record time varies depending upon 720p or 1080p and frame rate, and size of card. The camera package ships with 2 * 8GB Cards. See the P2 forum here at the cow for more info.
There are options in the field such as direct to hard disc recording, or dumping to your laptop or a hard drive as you shoot a card.
No, the camera is not for everyone – many people are perfectly happy with HDV, but others are not, and like the frame rate flexibility of the HVX200 and the no tape of P2.
HD XDCAM sounds interesting, but it’s still MPEG2.
Graeme
– http://www.nattress.com – Film Effects and Standards Conversion for FCP
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[danrnw] “Not to be too negative, but 8 minutes of HD record time with the
Panasonic HVX 200 ? Do I have that correct?
If so, that is not a serious field shooting camera for HD.”Which is why Focus Enhancements is releasing a new Firestore for this camera with a 100GB harddrive. That will greatly increase the record time.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“The Rough Cut,” an original short film premiering December 7th in full High Definition in Atlanta.
rsvp@biscardicreative.com to reserve seats.
https://www.theroughcutmovie.com“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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i agree the 8 minutes of record time for the P2 cards is pretty useless and then gets really crazy when you have to pay $8000 per card…the harddrive option from firestore etc makes it alot more useful
it’s hard to find a good native 16:9 camera to replace the sony PD150/70 and PDX10. I like the fact that the HVX includes DVCPRO 50 a great 4:2:2 codec.
out of interest can the naked eye make out the difference between DVCPRO HD and 10 Bit SD?
G5 DP 2.0
2.0G RAM
OS 10.4.2
QT 7.0.3
FCP 5.0.3
BMD Decklink Extreme -
[paul nevison] “out of interest can the naked eye make out the difference between DVCPRO HD and 10 Bit SD?”
It’s not even close. 720×486 vs 1280×720 with a ton more color latitude on HD? I’m at the point now where I really get annoyed working in SD because I get so much color latitude and more room on the screen in HD.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com“The Rough Cut,” an original short film premiering December 7th in full High Definition in Atlanta.
rsvp@biscardicreative.com to reserve seats.
https://www.theroughcutmovie.com“I reject your reality and substitute my own!” – Adam Savage, Mythbusters
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