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Media Management across projects
We are working a large project, with several editors cutting sequences from the same media.
When we go to up-res, how can we avoid recapturing the same media more than once?
As I understand it, FCP does not maintain any relationship between master clips across projects. And there is no way to have more than one editor working on the same project on different machines.
So if a sequence in Project A uses the same bit of media as a sequence in project B, and we recapture the media for Project A, how can we get FCP to recognize that this bit of media in Project B has already been recaptured?
The only solution I can see is to recapture ALL the Offline media at higher res, into a different folder, where all the media files have the same exact filename. But this is an unacceptable waste of time and drive space.
Also, if I make changes to the logging information for a clip in Project A, is there any way to have these changes reflected in Project B? The only “fields” which seem to work in this regard are the ones which are stored in the actual media file, namely, Reel, Aux1 Reel, Aux2 Reel, and Sound Roll.
(In my experience with Avid, it is possible to search through all the media based purely on reel & timecode information, so that any number of projects can automtically re-link to new media.)
Thanks!
Ze’ev -
8 Replies
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To prepare for the online, marry all of the projects into a new project file, marry the sequences by cutting and pasting… Next open media manager and create a new “offline” sequence deleting unused media and setting this new sequence to be the format you wish to recapture… should work fine as long as all media files were the same media files in first place… If they were not, you’ll need to make sure that tape names are consistent between one sequence and the next etc… then recapture should be OK… Where you’ll run into trouble is if editor a called it first tape, and editor b called his capture from the same tape a different name… that hasn’t happened, right?
Jerry
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Author: “Jerry Hofmann on Final Cut Pro 4” Click here
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If I understand you correctly, the solution you’re proposing will only be effective if all the projects are completed and ready at the same time, and only once picture is locked. That is not a realistic scenario for a project of this size. We need to present up-rezzed cuts all along the way to sponsors and producers overseas.
So I am more interested in “intermediate” up-rezzing. In other words, we’ve loaded all 500+ hours at Offline RT. A first logging pass has got us down to about 300 hours of “useable” footage. So now we want to capture about half of this footage at DV. And we want to re-link any rough cuts that have been done so far to the new DV material. Later, we will want to capture some more at DV, and re-link that. And so on.
At some point, we will want to capture 1 or 2 sequences at HD. Then later, we will want to capture another seq or two at HD. And so on.
Each subsequent cut will no doubt re-use some material from an earlier cut that has already been re-captured.
Also: none of the editors are doing the capturing. That is done on separate workstations. So the reel names are consistent. We would like all the editors to work from the same “Master Log” project file. But as I understand the FCP manual, as soon as anyone uses a bit of a master clip from the “Master Project” in their own sequence, that clip becomes independent and unaffiliated from the matching master clip in the Master Project! So if up-rez clips in the Master Project, there is no way to have that same footage re-link to the up-rezzed media without doing it manually on a clip-by-clip basis!
Any ideas?
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zeev,
You’ll be much happier if you stop approaching this workflow like you’re using an AVID. One of the biggest differences between FCP and AVID is how they handle media. Avid is “project” centric, where everything must be in a project. FCP doesn’t care. Media can live anywhere, in any folder and anyone can access it. You do NOT need a “project” to work with it.
Therein, lies the strength of FCP. Using the MAC HFS, you can organize your media in a way that will address your workflow concerns. Multiple editors accessing the same media? No problem. We have close to one hundred editors all networked together via X-SAN, all using the same media. I guarantee it will work. From the nature of your questions,it sounds like you don’t have much FCP experience. My advice would be to hire someone who knows what they’re doing to help get you up and running. The decisions you make now (setting up your workflow) will impact this project to the end.
As for the “up res” issue, I’ve spent many a night redigitizing media on a Symphony that “SHOULD” have relinked, but didn’t. Why not save the “upres” until picture is locked? We’ve been using off-line RT for network review and approval for years. Trying to do an “interim” upres that editors can work with seems like a waste of time and an unecessary point of confusion.
mark
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So, in other words, Mark, you’re telling me that FC can not, in fact, do what I need. You’re saying that I would need to adjust my workflow to conform to FCP’s limitations.
“Multiple editors accessing the same media? No problem.”
I did not ask if several editors could access the same media.Why not save the “upres” until picture is locked? We’ve been using off-line RT for network review and approval for years.
Why not? Because I don’t want to. Or should I call the BBC and tell them that Mark Raudonis over in LA said they should just accept OfflineRT cuts for approval, because his networks do so?I’ve spent many a night redigitizing media on a Symphony that “SHOULD” have relinked, but didn’t.
Then you should just hire someone who knows what they’re doing to help get you up and running.Trying to do an “interim” upres … seems like a waste of time and an unecessary point of confusion.”
…just like responding to posts on a forum which do absolutely nothing to address the question being asked.Are you saying that you’ve never been in a situation where you needed to do an “interim” upres? That’s strange; I’ve never been in one where I haven’t. (Of course I’m only referring to real, large, paying projects in the real world, with deadlines and teams of editors, and budgets and all that.) Or have you just given up on it because FC can’t do it without wasting hours of manual re-linking?
Your worthless answer merely reinforces my opinion that I should spend the time and money necessary to migrate this whole project to Avid, and return all our copies of FC.
I find it extremely amusing how every question I’ve asked on this forum draws at least several “Oh, don’t do it that way, do it the FC way!” and “Silly Avid user!” If those people harbor any desire that FC become an industry standard someday, they’re going about it the wrong way. It’s kind of funny how they seem to have an almost emotional attachment to a piece of software, and appear to take it personally when anyone suggests that it might be anything less than perfect. It’s like a religion … call it Mac-ism.
I suppose being in a minority makes one overzealous to the point of fanaticism.
I thought the point of these forums was to get help in learning new techniques and solving problems. Being told to “hire someone who knows better” is a waste of everyone’s time. Why did you bother to write? You could have just said, “No, sorry, FC cannot do what you’re asking.”
Incidentally, I am working with a team of experienced FC editors, and they are thinking we should switch to Avid as well. Maybe you could put me in touch with one of your super-expert people.
Cheers!
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FCP’s media management will not easily do what you are suggesting. If you really must use this workflow (not everyone does), you are probably better off with Avid, which is far more robust in media management.
I think you owe Mark an apology. Though you didnt care for his answer, it was not out of line. Feel free to blast me too, if it makes you feel better.
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Dear Ze’ev
I totally undesrtand your problem and your got a real Post problem in front of you! (and I 2nd your response to earlier post here about the ‘stop using it like an Avid’ comment)I do not have several editors working on dif projects with same media, but I work on very large projects which I organize into Masterclips Project and Edit version projects (To keep the MB per project smaller which keeps FCP happier). This effecively creates the same problem you have, namely there is no link between the clips I have in the Masterclip project and the cips in my edit version project.
The only solution I can see for your problem is the following:
Prefix:
– You only can work with full Masterclips meaning when you uprez you have to capture the whole take you want exactly as you captured it low rez (not deleting unused parts!) The way I do it is to log all clips as camera start to stop, never! combining takes in one masterclip! FCP is much better in working with small masterclips.
– you never can change the filename through the whole process (clipname) as it is your only save reference for masterclip over sev projects. The way I do it is the use clipnames (and therefore filenames) that represent project/reel number/scene/running number. describtions are only entered via log notes. Much easier to find clips later on!
– FCP stores all clip information for a seq in the seq itself! You do not need the masterclip project to recreate all clips used in a seq. (but you know that 🙂The Workflow:
– Capture the clips as above. Let your editors cut away.
– When uprezing, take a given seq and use the Media manager to create a new project with selecting to create new masterclips with the setting you want to uprez in. DO NOT select ‘delete unused media’. The reason is if the next seq is uprezed and contains clips that are already captured for seq A but trimmed for unused media, FCP will not be able to understand that a clip in seq B may use a slightly diff part of the master media! FCP looks when relinking first for the filename, then for the length of the clip. Even if the filename matches it will refuse to link to a clip with diff length. It also can’t just check reel number and TC to match to media (which is where the whole problem originates in the first place!)
– recapture the uprez clips for seq A into a new directory where all uprez clips should go for all following sequences. This way you later on only have to look into one directory to see if clips are already there.
– When it comes to uprez seq B again use the media manager to create the project. Now select your new masterclips for seq B and relink first to find already captured clips. When the dialog comes up select to automatically relink all clips find in the new directory and only find matching names. This gives you a half automatic way to relink. It will still ask you every time it can’t find a clip, but then you only have to click ‘skip’. I know its a real pain, but no other way I know of :-(. Capture the remaining missing clips for seq B.
– And so forth.Sorry but I do not know any other way to solve the problem inside FCP.
If I could write software I have an idea how to use the XML export in FCP to create the ultimate Media Manager which would solve all problems (and then some). But I can’t and until I find somebody who can….(if you know somebody, drop me a line 🙂
All the best getting through your project, either with FCP or Avid 🙂
Cofe
cofe@exemail.com.au -
[d.z.gilad] “”Multiple editors accessing the same media? No problem.”
I did not ask if several editors could access the same media.”Perhaps you should look at the first line of your first post, I’ll remind you: “We are working a large project, with several editors cutting sequences from the same media.” You don’t bother to describe your setup at all, is it multiple workstations networked together using shared storage? Is it one machine with editors coming in and out in shifts? Which version of FC are you using? If you have a complex problem, it would help if you gave detailed information so that people more experienced than yourself can give you the benefit of their FREE advice.
[d.z.gilad] “Why not save the “upres” until picture is locked? We’ve been using off-line RT for network review and approval for years.
Why not? Because I don’t want to. Or should I call the BBC and tell them that Mark Raudonis over in LA said they should just accept OfflineRT cuts for approval, because his networks do so?”I work for the BBC for about 6 months of every year, they don’t expect to see online quality until the picture’s locked and been approved from the offline (low res) cuts. Perhaps you’re grappling with the mistake (due to inexperience no doubt) of digitising at quarter resolution offlineRT (which is designed for maximising the space on a laptop only) instead of using DV (or even photoJPEG) as your ‘offline’ resolution. If you’d asked anyone on this forum – that’s what they would have advised – you’d have no need to be wasting time and resources doing intermediate uprezzing.
[d.z.gilad] “I find it extremely amusing how every question I’ve asked on this forum draws at least several “Oh, don’t do it that way, do it the FC way!” and “Silly Avid user!” If those people harbor any desire that FC become an industry standard someday, they’re going about it the wrong way. It’s kind of funny how they seem to have an almost emotional attachment to a piece of software, and appear to take it personally when anyone suggests that it might be anything less than perfect. It’s like a religion … call it Mac-ism.”
Would you expect to be able to fly a helicopter just because you have a cessna? Perhaps you would suggest they take the rotors off and glue some wings and a propellor on. Why is it so strange for people to say that you need to stop thinking about FC as if its AVID. It isn’t AVID. Both systems have their strengths and weaknesses, both get the job done, and both have their own workflows. If one manufacturer copied the other wholesale, they’d be sued. If you don’t like or understand one workflow use the other.
Remember that the limitations are similar – on AVID you can’t have multiple editors working on the same bin or sequence at the same time, on AVID you can’t have more than one project open at a time so in a networked environment you have editors working on different sequences in different bins. FC however allows you to have multiple projects open, so why not have one master project which contains digitized clips and finished sequences. All the editors can have access to this, then create cutting projects on individual workstations for the relevant sequences. When the sequence is finished, put it into the master project. Not that dissimilar from what AVID does.
Your inflammatory, and frankly rude, comments merely betray your prejudice and ignorance. If you want peolple to give their time and expertise to help you out of a self made mess then treat them with a little respect.
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Zeev,
Please return to Avid land. You’ll be much happier… and you won’t be wasting any of our time.
By the way, why don’t you post who you’re working for so we can let them know what a fine, upstanding citizen of the net you are!
mark
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