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1080P24 in FCP without rendering
Hello,
Does anyone out there have experience editing 1080 footage at 24 frames per second? I am working on an independent feature on my dual 2.5 with FCP 5 and have some questions. The project was shot on multiple DV cameras and combined (in After Effects) into a sort of moving collage. Not knowing any better, I rendered out these collages at 1920 by 1080, square pixels at 24 full frames per second. Full res scenes were rendered into Quicktime movies using the Photo-Jpeg codec. They were also rendered into standard def DV files to edit the scenes together and mix the audio. Now I would like to conform my HD renders to the DV cut, as well as color correct and fine tune. So here are my questions:
First, is it possible to playback HD footage at 24 fps without hardware assistance? (No Kona or Blackmagic card, yet.) Is there a codec that will support real-time playback to my cinema display without a card? Does the DVCProHD codec support 24P at 1080 WITHOUT wrapping it inside a 1080i signal? I’ve tried running the file through Compressor and converting it to DVCProHD. But any variation I try gives me a red render bar in whatever timeline settings I choose.
I hope this is doable, because I’d like to be able to move back and forth between After Effects and FCP without adding and removing pulldown.
So whatdya say? Anyone out there a 24-frame-per-second-HD genius?
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4 Replies
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Jerry,
You do need a video card to accelerate your HD workflow as well as output the image with 3:2 pulldown to a monitor or output to tape.
You could work in dvcproHD codec at 720P/23.98 and view via a cinema display but that monitor is not accurate for critical color correction work.
There is no 1080 24P dvcproHD codec at this time only 720P or 1080i.
FYI 24P refers to 24 frame progressive scan so no you cannot have a progressive image within a interlaced image without adding 3:2 pulldown.If I may ask why did you output to 1920×1080 when the original work originated on dv? Unless you were planning to rez out to film which is highly unlikely given that you do not even have a HD card to view on a monitor this step seems like a waste time and effort.
Tony Salgado
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[Jerry Witt] “First, is it possible to playback HD footage at 24 fps without hardware assistance? (No Kona or Blackmagic card, yet.) Is there a codec that will support real-time playback to my cinema display without a card? “
Yes and No, you need a card to get the video into your machine, 1080|24 psf compressed to the DVCPROHD codec will playback for cutting without a problem on a properly configured machine.
Note your cinema display is Not color accurate.
[Jerry Witt] “Does the DVCProHD codec support 24P at 1080 WITHOUT wrapping it inside a 1080i signal?”
That is not possible because the format is PSF ( progressive segmented frame)only unless you are in 4:4:4 Dual Link. This format plays back at 48i but contrary to Tony’s comments (and some of mine previously) PSF is captured in the camera as Progressive content and then segmented for playout from tape. So no the format is always played back as interlace unless you are working to a Sony 24p monitor.From IBC
Gary Adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
Chicago, IL -
Tony & Gary,
Thanks for your replies. I’m trying to figure out the best work flow for this project going forward and your replies are helpful (though disappointing.)
[tony salgado] “If I may ask why did you output to 1920×1080 when the original work originated on dv? Unless you were planning to rez out to film which is highly unlikely given that you do not even have a HD card to view on a monitor this step seems like a waste time and effort.”
Well, yeah, I planned on going back to film. I think every first-time feature filmmaker has expectations of premiering at Sundance and getting a theatrical distribution deal. Even though that might not happen, I think having a HD master will add value to the project. Also, keep in mind that very few of these shots were rez-ed up to 1920 by 1080. Most were a combination of multiple shots at 100% to 120% scale, comped into a single frame.
Here’s what I don’t understand, and maybe you can help me. If someone shoots on a DVX100 in 24P advanced, they can bring the footage in and convert their footage in FCP to 24 discrete frames per second and edit without pulldown. Is their not something like that available for 1080?
Let’s say I get a Kona LH and a HD crt monitor. Can I then edit in realtime at 24 frames per second and have the Kona card apply the 3:2 pulldown when it goes to the display?
One last question: I rendered these scenes at 24 frames per second. Will I need to change these files to 23.98? If so what would be the best procedure?
Thanks!
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“This format plays back at 48i but contrary to Tony’s comments (and some of mine previously) PSF is captured in the camera as Progressive content and then segmented for playout from tape.”
Gary I never implied or said the above in my past postings. If you are referring to the Sony F900 camera which uses psf as the method to record and display images on to or from tape then yes it is true.
1080 24 progressive is not exclusively reserved for psf as Panasonic’s D5 HD vtr can record in 24P and 24psf.
However the Varicam does not use psf as the CCD scans and records full progressive frames to tape.
Regarding wrapping a 24P image within a 1080i signal yes this is possible by adding 3:2 and later extracting the 3:2 leaving behind the native 24P images.
Let us not confuse an interlace display 60i with a psf display 48i which is not interlace since the frame consist of one moment in time divided in half whereas the 60i interlaced image contains two moments in time within the full frame.
Tony Salgado
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