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24p and FCP5 to FCP4.5 Question
Good Monday Morning,
First I was wondering if there is any way to save a FCP5 project so that FCP4.5 can read it. I have FCP4.5 and the audio engineer has FCP5. He has nice speakers and good ears, so we want to do it over there. But I’m going to need to open it again in FCP4.5 after we are done over there. Any ideas?AND
I just took on finishing a project that was shot on a Canon XL2 in 24p. I have the rough cut on a firewire drive with all the media captured and the sequence settings at 29.97. My question is… Did the original editor have to use Cinema Tools to get it to 29.97 or can FCP4.5 capture 24p and convert it to 29.97 on the fly so to speak.
I have done the seaches and I have read Ken Stone’s artical on the 24p work flow and I have the Apple Pro Digital Film Tree Advanced Techniques but was not able to grasp some details, (Like what happen to the audio when you record it at 24p and then play it back at 29.97) And a little side question, when you export a quicktime movie out of FCPHD on a sequence with 29.97drop it shows up as 30 fps in the quicktime info box. When I import it back into FCPHD do I loss anything?
Thank you so much for your patience and any ideas!
Chris
(PS I know this is a guestion for the original editor, but the producers are having a very hard time getting a hold of him. humm:)
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9 Replies
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Also does any one know a forum that deals specifically with Non-HD 24p and 24pa fork flow issues. Thanks Chris
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[chris] “First I was wondering if there is any way to save a FCP5 project so that FCP4.5 can read it. “
File > Export > XML > Interchange Version 1
[chris] “I have the rough cut on a firewire drive with all the media captured and the sequence settings at 29.97. My question is… Did the original editor have to use Cinema Tools to get it to 29.97 or can FCP4.5 capture 24p and convert it to 29.97 on the fly so to speak. “
the original editor was lazy and did not dig the footage for 24p, they only used the DV footage as is.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation -
Shaazam! Thanks Gary.
As far as capturing 24p at 29.97. What does that mean to me as an online editor? Should I go back and recapture everyting? Will the audio drift, will the edits change by a few frames? Will I have to recut everything starting on “Aframes” in a 24p project ? Will the sky start to fall and the earth open up? Oh my gosh.. I’m scared, very scared. These people did a great job and the footage looks fantastic and its even a good story too, I really want to give them what they had in mind. And I really want to do this right.. I have time.
Thanks, Chris
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I am really sure you are treading in unknown territory– Hire someone to guide you. I cannot believe how many on these lists think that you can “just do it” in FCP and find out they are way over their head.
I try not to make assumptions about how to handle footage sight unseen. Too many do that here.
Find a good tech in your area and hire them for a day to explain this process — the 24p craze has left more people lying in the dirt tearing their hair out than you can imagine. It is not plug and play -especially when there is more than one person doing the shooting and editing.gary adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation -
24P runs at 29.97fps. It has a cadence that makes it look more film-like, but it runs at the normal NTSC tape rate. It is 24PA that records 23.98 onto a tape at 29.97 using a 3:2 pulldown.
Shane’s Stock Answer #23
Quoting Ken Stone’s site found at:
https://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/24p_in_FCP_nattress.html
24p Normal
When shooting in 24p Normal, the camera is adding normal standard 3:2 pulldown to the video, which results in 24p footage designed to work with any non-linear editing suite and it will play back and look good directly to any NTSC monitor. You can use 24p Normal footage just like normal video from any DV camera, and everything will work fine, but obviously, the footage will have a film look to it. If you -
Yo Shane,
Standard Thank You #1, Thanks Man!
I guess everything is fine then and no one was lazy, except me. I should have kept reading that Nattress artical over and over till it made sence. But its all starting to now. Not exactly rocket science… But one more question…When Gramme writes – 24p Normal
“When shooting in 24p Normal, the camera is adding normal standard 3:2 pulldown to the video, which results in 24p footage designed to work with any non-linear editing suite and it will play back and look good directly to any NTSC monitor. You can use 24p Normal footage just like normal video from any DV camera, and everything will work fine, but obviously, the footage will have a film look to it. If you -
[Shane Ross] “24P runs at 29.97fps. It has a cadence that makes it look more film-like, but it runs at the normal NTSC tape rate. It is 24PA that records 23.98 onto a tape at 29.97 using a 3:2 pulldown.”
Just a couple of clarifications:
24p footage does not run at 29.97, it runs at 23.98 (23.976)FPS –it is recorded to tape in NTSC at 29.97FPS- traditionally using the 3:2 pulldown method of inserting 2 dupe frames then 3 dupe frames to fill in the timing difference.
24p footage is 23.98 fps using the standard 3:2 pulldown cadence.
24pA footage is also 23.98 fps and uses the 2:3:3:2 cadence for the pulldown insertion so that there is not a mixed frame when the rev telecine is done to remove all the frames that have been added.
No one should be shooting 24.0 as a frame rate for video. It really really screws up the audio in post.[Shane Ross] “with 24PA, the footage looks jittery when played on the tape. So sure, you can work with it and output it to tape, but that tape is useless to anyone OTHER than someone who can capture it and perform a reverse telecine to work with it. It will not work as a Master tape for any viewable purpose: Broadcast TV, projected video from tape, a master tape for dubbing purposes. So, in effect, it is useless as a tape master, and should be avoided.”
This is rather misleading- all 24 frame content looks this way when played back improperly because people are not used to seeing 24 frame content on anything less than a movie screen, 24pA footage is the easiest to handle in 24 fps in the FW workflow but does NOT work well when mixing different types or kinds of footage. Most telecine functions are not using anything but the very old and standard 3:2 pulldown, and keeping with it gives you more flexibility in the long run for your
delivery, just because there are so many different solutions that handle your footage that way.gary adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation -
Hi Gary,
When you say;“No one should be shooting 24.0 as a frame rate for video. It really really screws up the audio in post.”
Do you mean 24p or 24pa? And does “video” include output to DVD? And how does it screw up audio in post? This really concerns me.
And you seem to be contradicting Grammes assertion that;
– 24p Normal
“When shooting in 24p Normal, the camera is adding normal standard 3:2 pulldown to the video, which results in 24p footage designed to work with any non-linear editing suite and it will play back and look good directly to any NTSC monitor. You can use 24p Normal footage just like normal video from any DV camera, and everything will work fine, but obviously, the footage will have a film look to it. If you -
[chris] “”No one should be shooting 24.0 as a frame rate for video. It really really screws up the audio in post.”
Do you mean 24p or 24pa? And does “video” include output to DVD? And how does it screw up audio in post? This really concerns me.”Neither — I meant 24.0 as a frame rate for video editing. Most 24 frame video content is edited at 23.98 (called 24p)
24p and 24pA BOTH have a frame rate of 23.98 ( or 23.976 depending where you look.) The only difference between these 2 is the cadence of the added frames {3:2 or 2:3:3:2) to reach the NTSC frame rate of 29.97.
How am I saying anything different that Graeme? If you are not familiar with the way 24 frame content is created or handled don’t ask a video guy ( sorry Graeme) ask a film guy- if you work at a PBS station ask one of the engineers -they will be able to explain the whole film to video process.
gary adcock
Studio37
HD and Film Consultation
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