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The color red, even in uncompressed 10-bit FCP.
I come across the issue of uncompressed 10bit not being able to hold up with some strong reds. Often stepping in chroma, which I expect and accept in DV, is apparent even in 10bit. This issue is my top frustration when it rears its ugly head (since i cant fully understand it) when I’m in the middle of a conform using FCP.
Is this really just a limitation of 4:2:2, or some other limitation of the codec?
While I have previously figured how to deal with it as best I could, this can’t possibly be acceptable as is. Anyone come across/have a method of dealing with or improving this? -
22 Replies
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What is your source?
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-Mike -
Ive had this issue with both digibeta xfers and graphics.
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There have been previous strings about problems with 10-bit UC and color corrections not ‘sticking’. Snoop around a bit. [sorry for being lazy].
It seems unresolved whether it is a QT or an FCP issue, from last I read. There were some workarounds suggested, so it’s not hopeless.
steve covello
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Does it do down to tape that way? What do your scopes say?
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[alexander serpico] “I come across the issue of uncompressed 10bit not being able to hold up with some strong reds. Often stepping in chroma, which I expect and accept in DV, is apparent even in 10bit.”
What format are you coming from? How are you monitoring? This isn’t enough info. For example, ALL LCD monitors are 8 bit. Digibeta decks can be set up to playback in 8 bit or 10 bit. Etc.
Terence Curren
http://www.alphadogs.tv
http://www.digitalservicestation.com
Burbank,Ca -
[JeremyG] “What do your scopes say?”
Yes, this is one I was wondering about. Are your reds legal or are they out of legal? Especially in SD, red is a very touchy color and can cause issues in a hurry.
Walter Biscardi, Jr.
https://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Broadcast and independent productions.All Things Apple Podcast! https://cowcast.creativecow.net/all_things_apple/index.html
Read my blog! https://blogs.creativecow.net/WalterBiscardi
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Everyone please check out this still:
https://www.alexanderserpico.com/images/fcp_textonred.jpg
it is grey text over red. ive put the scopes next to it, and nothing is illegal.
yet it breaks apart, and chroma jaggies are visible.if i make the grey text white, yes it looks fine over the red.
So back to my original question, is this a limitation of the codec?
If everyone says “well just dont use that color”, my response to you will be
i can’t say that to a client… or he will go conform on a Henry, etc. -
> yet it breaks apart, and chroma jaggies are visible.
to correct myself, the text looks more jaggy than the chroma.. but that too is visible when going out to a monitor…
and to be more specific,
text made in text tool, title 3d, or brought in from photoshop, all break apart over that red. -
Alright. Just asking, but is everything rendered? What does it look when going down to tape, and you are also looking at a production monitor, correct? The canvas is not an accurate monitor, as I’m sure you know.
I have seen this before and it gets cleaned up when going to tape. Red is always a difficult video color, in my experience anyway. What happens if you take a little red saturation out? I notice that it’s legal according to FCP scopes, do you have external scopes?
As far as clients telling you they want a different red, you know I’m sure, that video doesn’t include every color in the spectrum and some play better and hold up better than others. Just like Walter said, SD red can be problematic when saturated (which this obviously is as the red falls within the target).
I encourage you to lay that section to tape and watch the playback. See what happens and report back, even though I think you said you did that.
Have you tried blurring the red channel a bit, or isolate that red, being down sat and see what happens?
Jeremy
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Yes everything is rendered…
On a production monitor it still looks terrible, and also when laid off to digi.
I don’t have external scopes currently.>As far as clients telling you they want a different red
I was referring to using gray type on that red.In this case when I did this a few weeks ago, I ended up blurring the red and pulling it’s saturation way down, putting a little bit of a white outline on the text. It still looked bad, but on one said anything. I don’t like just “getting away” with problems like that…
So once again my original question, is this just a limitation of the codec or a weakness of final cut? I want to know if i have to tell a client that i cant do something like that cause it is technically not possible, or technically not possible with final cut.
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