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59.94 to 23.98—help needed.
Here it goes. Another we should of…but now we have this question?
We have a feature shot on Varicam (23.98). When the assistant (no longer with us–you’ll see why) logged and captured
the footage on the set, it was DV NTSC 29.97 (interlaced). Our editor who came on afterwards cut the entire feature at
at 29.97. It wasn’t until our new assistant came in, media managed at 59.94, then brought back in the footage (via 1200a)
at 720p 59.94.Of course the audio is being worked on at 29.97 as we sit. We have a 59.94 timeline—uncompressed 8bit, via Kona 2 with raids.
It is running and looking great. We need to color correct (divinci) and out put it to HDCAM 24p. Also an internation copy on Digibeta/HDCAM PAL.We threw it in a 23.98 timeline and rendered only to find some clips were effected, causing a wierd motion look. We checked and found if we recapture at 23.98 (just those clips) they would work. Of course the cadence is off…the cuts are a bit off…and the sound sync floats.
Someone told us to keep it at 59.94, use our 1200a as a layback ( 2 tapes of course) and then assemble it on a HDCAM at 60i. Then we loose progression (it’s okay–straight to DVD/TV–no film output) but we were told that going HDCAM PAL is a nightmare unless it is at 24p.
Anyone have a work around for us? Should we leave it at 59.94 use a Terranex for PAL? or rebatch at 23.98 and get another headache.
Any help or workflow or experience would be helpful.
Thanks
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14 Replies
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Wow…you’ve added a lot of questions there and perhaps not enough info…start queston at a time..
29.97 is 23.98 in audio. They are the same in time.
Are you saying you cut an offline at 29.97 and want to redig at HD 23.98? You can use Cinema Tools to create a 23.98 batch list from a 29.97 project. The temp audio becomes a guide if there is a frame slip error…there is a + = 1 frame error in this method..but that’s they way it is…
I don’t understand where the pal part came from…are you saying you’re doing a pal version as well?
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Also… I think it’s quite a large scope to only blame the assistant editor on this if the project has gotten this far and your team hasn’t asked these final finishing questions from the beginning.
It is the producers responsiblity..not the asst. editor.
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If you have a 29.97 you want to PAL and you feel like rendering to save a dime….www.Nattress.com.
Graeme sells a Standards Converter FINAL CUT PRO plug in that, while taking a great deal of time to render, does in fact work great.
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Mike
Thanks for the resonse. Yes the producers do share in problem…(we probably shouldn’t have mentioned that…it’s a waste of time to discuss)
As for the project:
Shot on Varicam at 23.98. Was captured and edited (offline) at 29.97 DV NTSC interlaced. Media managed at 59.94 to offline clips. Recaptured at 720p 59.94 and the time line adjusted to 59.94. Of course there are some clips that are off by 1 frame in the edit. The audio was OMF’d at 29.97 and is currently being cleaned up at that rate. We eventually wanted to go to HDCAM at 24p. But when we throw the timeline (59.94) into a 23.98 timeline, some of the clips become stuttered (it seems the cadence is off due to the cut). We could recapture back at 23.98 and continue, but our eventual delivery is DVD (NTSC) and HDCAM 60i/Digibeta (NTSC) for televison. Our second delivery is HDCAM 50i (PAL)/Digibeta (PAL).
The big question is it even worth it to go 23.98 if we don’t have to. Just keep it at 59.94 (that is working in FCP). We will not being doing PAL in FCP. We can take that to a dub house after we master and color on HDCAM 60i. ( we are going DIVINCI for color). We were told to take our 1200a and capture back the 59.94 project back to DVCPRO HD, then the color house will dub that to HDCAM 60i….color correct.
I guess I might be answering my own question here…but any other insight would be great. I know about Natress….but we won’t be doing anything in FCP other than taking back the color corrected version and compressing for DVD.
Thanks for you time
FATKID
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Well… one global thing is how much more money do you want to spend.
Leaving it at 29.97/59.94 is of course your fomat for broadcast and it works as well for DVD. 23.98 works better with DVD because it takes up less space and better compression can be used. But..it’s not super subtantial savings..so don’t sway because of that.
I would say..stay at 59.94. It already exists now and it looks great. Remember..it cannot go back to film easily in this way. And yes..the cadence is off…the 3:2 pulldown is scattered about so don’t try any pulldown removal tricks…you’ll be dissapointed in the stutters..
Pal can be made from the 59.94 as well. again.
You can color correct in 59.94.
You audio post place (usually all work off a offline 29.97 tape anyways) is doing the audio correctly too.
You seem in a good place.
If you really need a 23.98 master… do it now. conform the 29.97 list to 23.98 in Cinema Tools..and check it carefully for 1 frame errors. You’re audio will still sync correctly.
It seems you don’t need this…just keep a simple 29.97 edl of the timeline in the event that you ever need to be 23.98 though. Pick up that cost later if needed.
Mike
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Mike
Thanks for your time on this. Next time we offline in 23.98…keep it all the way.
I agree. If we need to go to film we will need to re-color correct anyway. We can conform list to 23.98 and recapture. It only took 2 days to
batch in. But I think we are in a good place right now. Better keep moving.Thanks for letting us bounce this around with you. I hope others will learn from our mistakes…
FATKID
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Maybe I didn’t read everything careful enough here – but is this a film project that will conform back to film for theatrical release, or is this a TV project for broadcast Television – because if it IS for television, and will never see a theater for theatrical release – why would ANYONE care if this project is at 59.94 or 29.97 ?
Bob Zelin
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It is for DVD and TV. No one should care, you are correct. We’re covered all around I think.
ThanksFATKID
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24p allows more space on said DVD, if that is important to you.
Jeremy
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Why?
It’s smart to anticipate this in the world of features. Studios are wanting a 23.98 HD master for features. 23.98 is the best format to get to any other…PAL, FILM, and NTSC HD, SD Pan and Scan, Center Cut, letterboxed.
It’s becoming a simple deliverable fps format for features AND episodic television as well. I actually covered his other questions in a previous posting above.
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