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SAN Networking Questions
Hi All
I’ll jump straight to the question: Can a fibre channel SAN be shared over an ethernet network?
Here’s the background: over the last 15+yrs of editing, I have managed to live without learning much about the back end of storage networking – large facilities hired the pros to manage that. But now I am stepping into a position in a small production company where I will be upgrading/modifying an existing workflow.
The old system: 2 x G5s running FCP 6.0 w/ 4Gbps Atto fibre cards, 2 x Fibrenetix Cubex with 12 x 500gh SATA Drives, a Qlogic SANbox fibre switch, 2 x Fibrejet 2.7 Licenses
Proposed upgrades: One G5 will be replaced by a MacPro and 8Gbps fibre Card, Fibrejet Upgrades to 4.0,
12 x 2Tb SATA drives for the Fibrenetix Cubex devicesSo coming back to my question, I am hoping I can turn the old G5 into a CatDV server/workstation that can access the SAN through regular Gig ethernet network. Though the machine has a fibre card installed, a whole new seat of Fibrejet is to expensive for a non-editing machine. I would appreciate any advice. Newbie jabs are welcome too 🙂
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19 Replies
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Hi Vik,
Here’s a tip: Fiber Channel RAIDS sitting behind one server can be shared over an Ethernet network in a way, simply because you can put an Ethernet adapter into the Mac Server and connect Gigabit or 10Gbit clients to access the server….since the server is the only thing talking to the FC RAID, you’ve been able to avoid the need for individual client connection cards, to a FC SWITCH, Software for each, etc…..
Storage is tricky however depending on what you want to do with it. Do you intend to create a REAL TIME SHARED NETWORK (or) a PUSH AND PULL only network…… one will be based on pure REAL TIME SHARED PERFORMANCE and one will be based more on just SHARED BANDWIDTH performance.
I would recommend getting that Mac Pro server, and putting in a Multi Port (quad or six port) Ethernet Adapter, or 10Gb adapter to connect the users accordingly…….. Then pick your storage, and get it set up and see how it works for you based on what kind of network you want to configure.
Careful; Storage and Networking is the easy part to decide on…..getting something that does what you want under a Shared Network load is a little more difficult depending on the vendor hardware configuration you choose to use (hardware vendors all do it differently, be it Software, Hardware, etc…) This stuff is not built equal, which means looking at two data sheets and comparing them, is not doing you enough justice…. I would recommend making some phone calls to speak with vendors about their performance in the different types of networks you want to do … make sure it’s not all based solely on bandwidth.
I always say that it’s very easy for about any networking / storage company to give you something in terms of the bandwidth you need, however, when you’re editing video on a shared network or off a particular set of hardware, the real time performance will be the key for what you need…..this is not just about bandwidth.
Regards,
Matt Geier (Small Tree)
952-641-7433 -
I’ll jump straight to the question: Can a fibre channel SAN be shared over an ethernet network?
REPLY – your question is incorrect. Your question should be “can a fibre channel drive array attached to a MAC G5 be shared over an ethernet network” –
the answer is yes, but it will appear as a single client. This Fibre drive array and the G5 is NOT FAST ENOUGH to be used as a shared volume in any shared storage enviornment. HOWEVER, if you want to use this as a CAT DV “server” – sure, this will work fine, as anything, including a MAC Mini, can be used as a CAT DV server.The old system: 2 x G5s running FCP 6.0 w/ 4Gbps Atto fibre cards, 2 x Fibrenetix Cubex with 12 x 500gh SATA Drives, a Qlogic SANbox fibre switch, 2 x Fibrejet 2.7 Licenses
REPLY – this is not a shared storage system for modern computers. You can use this as a stand alone computer, and you can see this over an ethernet network, but it is NOT FAST ENOUGH to be used as a server for modern MAC Pro (or even MacBook Pro) clients that are running Snow Leopard.
So coming back to my question, I am hoping I can turn the old G5 into a CatDV server/workstation that can access the SAN through regular Gig ethernet network. Though the machine has a fibre card installed, a whole new seat of Fibrejet is to expensive for a non-editing machine
REPLY – you can buy a new $995 Mac Mini Server, and use this as a CatDV server if you wish, so are you really saving any money ? For CatDV this will work fine, but DO NOT EXPECT to use this as a shared storage server with your Fibrenetix Fibre arrays to serve video media to your modern MAC workstations.
Bob Zelin
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Thank you Bob & Matt, for taking the time. I figured my very questions may exhibit my ignorance in this area.
Bob – In the new setup, I will be using an 8 core Intel MacPro connected by fibre channel to the SAN for all my editing, color correction, mograph & compositing work. One G5, which will also be on the fibre network will be used only for recording voice tracks and closed captioning. I wanted to repurpose the other old G5 for CatDV purposes – but your suggestion that I could use a Mac Mini as a CatDV server makes me want to reconsider.
At the risk of touching on a contentious issue, I want to ask you another question: for the post production of a locally syndicated travel show edited using ProRes 422, is fibre storage an overkill? Are Gig/10 Gig storage networks significantly cheaper for comparable performance for the bandwidth I am pulling, or do the costs level off once all the nuts and bolts are taken into consideration. I ask this because each seat of Fibrejet + the required maintenance contracts works out to be so expensive. We have plans to add another show in the future, which would mean potentially getting a whole new shared storage system with at least one more primary editing system. Should we consider ditching fibre for copper? I apologize if my questions are too open ended with too many variables that need consideration.
Thank you
Vik Narayan -
Vik writes –
for the post production of a locally syndicated travel show edited using ProRes 422, is fibre storage an overkill? Are Gig/10 Gig storage networks significantly cheaper for comparable performance for the bandwidth I am pulling, or do the costs level off once all the nuts and bolts are taken into consideration.REPLY – YES. Gigabit ethernet will give you 90MB/sec per client with jumbo frames enabled. ProRes422 is 20MB/sec. Do you need 250MB/sec from Fibre channel to work with a 20MB/sec – is that overkill – you tell me. Regular cheapo Gig Ethernet (not even 10 Gig) will work perfectly for your appliation.
I ask this because each seat of Fibrejet + the required maintenance contracts works out to be so expensive. We have plans to add another show in the future, which would mean potentially getting a whole new shared storage system with at least one more primary editing system. Should we consider ditching fibre for copper? I apologize if my questions are too open ended with too many variables that need consideration.
REPLY – this is a simple question. A Gigabit ethernet solution will do exactly what you want –
These are made by –
Maxx Digital
Small Tree
Apace Systems
Edit Sharestart making your phone calls to these companies.
Excellent Fibre solutions comes from
Apple
AVID
Facilis
Studio Network Solutions
Rorke Data (if you want to use Fibre Jet)
JMRCal Digit makes an excellent Infiniband solution
and Tiger Technology makes an excellent “do it yourself” fibre solution called MetaSAN.
Bob Zelin
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So I suppose a Gigabit ethernet would support upto 4 streams of ProRes 422 (assuming this would be a linear equation).
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yes 20×4 = 80, but you are reaching the limit of the port.
Bob Zelin
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Hi Vik,
Bottom line for you is the reliability and sustainability of whatever protocol you choose to use (Ethernet is 1, and Fiber Channel is another….) – They are not Apples to Apples, more like an Apple and an Orange.
If you want to reliabily count on running 4 streams of Pro Res along with “bursts” on the wire, 10Gb Ethernet is certainly the way to go. It may seem like the MB/sec is enough on a 10Gb wire, but think if you are pulling a 4th stream of Pro Res, and something large impacts the same wire. You may find you drop a frame.
Small Tree will always recommend 10Gb Ethernet when someone wants to run more then 2 streams of Pro Res to a single workstation, this is because it’s reliably going to work…….This is just the way it is.
I’m not saying Bob is incorrect or faulty, there are people that have success running more then 2 streams on a Gigabit wire of Pro Res, however, eventually they may find that something goes wrong……Not saying it will, but it does happen.
Reliability is key.
Overall, an Ethernet network can cost little or more depending on how you want to network all your clients, and what Storage you choose to serve all those clients. Typically using Gigabit is okay, if you want to support an inexpensive Pro Res network, and 10Gb is more common (at least from Small Tree) for networks that want to do 1, 2, or 3 clients + using multi cam shoots, or 3 x Pro Res streams per client or more.
Regards,
Matt Geier (Small Tree)
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Matt of course is correct. We have found that while we can get it to work sometimes, you will find that as you start increasing the number of streams PER FCP CLIENT, you will occationally get drop frames. Some people suffer with this, others dont – and it depends on your media.
We have just suffered thru one client who took all of our “claims” literally, and demanded that we show him the absolute maxiumum amount of streams on every computer, all at the same time. Of course, we failed. If you want “tons of streams” everywhere, all at once, choose 10Gig ethernet. Does it cost a lot more money – YES.
Bob Zelin
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Thank you gentlemen, for your valuable insignts. I suppose the best route for me when it is time to upgrade will be either to stay with fibre or jump to 10gbps ethernet. I will most definitely look at Small Tree and Rorke Data (who are supporting our current very basic fibre solution).
Vik Narayan
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I don’t get it.
If you already have a fibre system, and are already dealing with Rorke Data, then how come you just don’t go with Rorke Data, who can provide you with Fibre Jet ? Why all the questions ?
Bob Zelin
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