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What am I doing wrong?
Hey Bob,
First of all, I want to say I am a big fan of yours. You are just the man. Now on to the stuff I need help with.
I saw your article here: https://magazine.creativecow.net/article/build-your-own-affordable-san-that-iworksi
I have a similar setup and I cannot get it to work. I have an Xserve and some G5s. I first ran everthing over my network without direct connections because I thought for capturing one stream of DV there would be no question – I was wrong. Even when I attach a computer directly to my Xserve via an ethernet cable I still cannot capture a DV stream. The capture as always starts and stops when expected (I am capturing a full tape), however the file is always corrupted at the end. I have a lot of storage plus managed switches and whatnot at my disposal. I really want to get this working and I just cannot for the life of my figure it out. I am a tech guy so I am familiar with this stuff (or so I thought). Please assist me.
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17 Replies
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I am using AFP to share out my hard drives.
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Ian,
When you ask what’s wrong, that’s a good question. I say this because there could be several things wrong at once, or just a couple of things going wrong. It’s hard to say.
If you’d like to shed some light on a list of hardware pieces you are using and EXACTLY how you’ve set things up, perhaps someone would be willing and able to provide some additional input.
I’d like to point out something you said—
Even when I attach a computer directly to my Xserve via an ethernet cable I still cannot capture a DV stream. The capture as always starts and stops when expected (I am capturing a full tape), however the file is always corrupted at the end.
My reply to that (there is some room for error here, I’m not a FCP expert…)
If the capture is starting and stopping as expected, it’s not dropping frames. (Usually dropped frames means your “captures or edits” are failing) — Simply having a corrupt file could mean a lot of things, even perhaps unrelated to the “networking” you’ve done up to this point.It’s hard to say what the problem is without taking the time to provide some additional input from your side about what further things you’ve tried and the different things you’ve done to reach the point where you are now.
Can you elaborate further about how you’ve set this up, and what steps you’ve gone through to configure everything. it also wouldn’t hurt to let us know what equipment you are using, just in case someone has experience with this already and can shed some additional light on the subject.
Regards,
Matt G
651-209-6509 x 1 -
Ian,
I believe the core issue here is your not using any software to manage the sharing. AFP is great for quick and easy file sharing, but really sucks when it comes to video capture and playing.
I’d recommend contacting Bernard from Tiger Technologies, they make MetaLAN software which is what Bob was talking about in his article on an affordable SAN.
Also keep in mind any IP connection is very processor intensive, so using a G4 vs G5 vs new Mac Pro makes a huge difference. What is likely happening is data is being lost in the IP packet transmission, sometimes this causes dropped frames, sometimes this causes corrupt files.
I assume MetaLAN has some type of caching algorithms that compensate for this, however, am not sure as I’ve only used their Fibre product.
Good luck.
Nate Cooper
ncooper@studionetworksolutions.com
818 209 1331 -
Ian,
You should know that there are solutions available today that rely solely on the use of Ethernet, and on Apple’s AFP running on an Apple server (Xserve as well as Mac Pro) .
Apple’s File Protocol (AFP), is not “file sharing” — Apple File Sharing is not AFP.
AFP will allow you to transfer up to 90MB /sec on a Gigabit wire using Jumbo Frames (with respect to bandwidth) — reading all this, I don’t think, based on what you described about the file being corrupt, you have an AFP issue.
Apple File Sharing – allows you to share stuff for others to access (hence, sharing your storage volume)
In my mind (and I’m looking for some others that use AFP and no overhead software to chime in…) — If you were capturing from your capture system, to the server/storage, the server is managing that connection, inode numbers, and all the kernal and i/o information being passed to the storage device…. the server is the access point…not each editors workstation.
Corrupted data could simply be caused by a mismatch in information, or perhaps a bump on the table (vibrating your disks in the storage) causing it to have a bad write, or numerous other things, like even a bad tape.
It’s very effective and possible to have multi amounts of users sitting on your server editing, all accessing different projects from the same storage volumes, and sharing media, without them reading and writing over each other, causing corrupted data, or data that is overwritten.
In a fibre channel environment, where each user hits the storage on their own connection, you need SAN software to manage each of those people from reading and writing over each other.
In a Ethernet environment with AFP running on your Apple server, and a switch or multi port gigabit connection serving each of the clients bandwidth, each user needs their own account on the server, and then each user can edit video with final cut (while at their own mac, in real time, over the wire.) – WITHOUT ANY SAN SOFTWARE ….
I’m not confident that running out and buying “traffic cop software” is going to solve your issue.
You really need to be on the phone talking to someone who can help support you, except you’re doing this all on your own, which means you will be at the mercy of this forum, or at the mercy of your wallet when you need to talk to someone like Bob Z, or Jordan Woods, etc !!
Regards,
Matt G
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Ian,
Me again –
Are you running 10.5 or 10.6?You may be experiencing some kind of bug in Final Cut, AFP, or perhaps something else.
I’m hearing about this kind of similar problem on some of the other forums here on The Cow, and externally, and also through some other “grape vines” —
Post us back with your o/s and let us know.
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I am the only one on the network so I cannot possibly believe that someone else is overwriting bits. I have two Xserve’s with a plethora of external drives. I have tried all of the drives on all of the systems to no avail. I am hopefully looking for a traffic cop software trial however the folks at Tiger-Technology have been unresponsive. I really want to talk to them.
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Hi Ian,
sorry, but I am guessing that you are doing everything wrong. You are setting up a simple network with no link aggregation, just a regular ethernet switch, and using older MAC G5’s with no ability to do jumbo frames. No, it’s not going to work. You don’t need MetaLAN, or any traffic cop solution.This is an OVERVIEW – not step by step instructions. There are companies like Maxx Digital, Small Tree, and others that advertise on Creative Cow, and post on these forums, that are all excellent soultions. No offense, but you don’t know what you are doing, and you are trying to simplify my article, by simply turning on your Xserve (it is an XServe, or XServe RAID ? – or both?) – and hope that you can do shared storage – it’s not like this at all.
First, before you go any further, on your XServe (or computer that runs the XServe RAID, or whatever storage you have) – run AJA System Test for drive speed (do you know what AJA System test is ?) – what is the speed of your central storage array ? Many older XServe RAID’s barely function. A single modern eSATA drive will do 100Mb/sec, and many 14 drive XServe RAIDs’ are barely running at 30Mb/sec. drives like this cannot be used.
This is the process. You get a MODERN MAC PRO (not an old G5 or old PCI-X Xserve), and you stick MODERN DISK DRIVES on it. If you have no money, you can stick internal SATA drives in the MODERN MAC PRO, and these internal drives can be used for DV shared storage. The OS on your MODERN MAC PRO needs to be OS-X 10.5.6 or higher (OS-X 10.4.11 is NOT going to work). If you say “but we don’t have the budget for a new MAC, all we have is an old G5 with OS-X 10.4.11” – well, then you cant have cheap shared storage.
OK, so lets say you have no money, but you have a new MAC Pro with OS-X 10.5.8 on it, and 2 internal SATA drives stripped RAID 0 that is doing 160Mb/sec with AJA System Test. Enough to do DV25 for a few systems. This is what you need – a Small Tree ES458V managed ethernet switch, and a Small Tree PEG6 multi port ethernet card. These products cost about $2000. “But I don’t have $2000 – can’t I use this Netgear switch I bought from Office Depot for $120” – NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. It will not work. Netgear, Cisco, HP and others make wonderful MANAGED GIGABIT ETHERNET SWTICHES, and they all cost money. You need to be able to do link aggregation, and these cheapo switches don’t do it. And if you don’t get a multiport ethernet card to aid you with Link Aggregation, THIS IS NEVER GOING TO WORK.
You then set up link aggregation, and some other setting in the Network menu. You assign static IP addresses to each MAC, if you have older G5 computers, you put in a PXG1D card($89 each) from Small Tree that will allow you to enable jumbo frames in each of these older MAC computers, and you now plug in a single ethernet cable from the PXG1D cards in the G5’s into your Small Tree swtich. Now you will have a working system.
“But why can’t I use my old XServe, and why do I have to buy anthing for these G5 computers” – It’s not working, is it ? You play by the rules, and things work. You don’t play by the rules, it won’t work. Simple Apple Filesharing on a MODERN MAC PRO COMPUTER will work wonderfully for your appliction, if you computer is configured properly. You can contact me if you wish via my website, or contact any of the wonderful companies I mentioned that advertise, and make turn key shared storage systems.
But if you company has ZERO BUDGET (and many companies – even large companies cannot get $3000 toegether to buy a new MAC Pro to act as a server) – then you cannot have shared storage.
This is an overview. My article was an overview – not a manual. It takes hours to set up these systems, with specialized knowlege.
“Isn’t there a cheaper way” – we are the cheaper way. All the other “better” solutions (XSAN, Charismac, Fibrejet, Studio Network Solutions, ProMax, Facilis, EditShare, AVID Unity) are all better, and all cost more money. We are the cheap guys. It’s not cheap enough, however, for many people.
bob zelin
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I am quite familiar with the Aja System test and I get close to 200mb/s between the Xserve and the external raid array. Over the network i get close to 80mb/s. I have a modern Intel Xserve which has jumbo frames and a small tree network card. The only old things are the clients which are G5s but they do have jumbo frames enabled. I have L2 Managed Netgear switches. All systems are running 10.5.8. I have tried with the clients directly connected to the Xserve. Now I have them connected via the switches with both the switches and the Xserve having link aggregation enabled.
I am not a whiner or a complainer and I understand these things take time and money. I am willing to spend and have spent both.
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I have raid enclosures from pc-pistop and highpoint technology cards with raid 5. connected to the server they are super fast and same thing over the network – file transfers, etc. for some reason the video doesn’t work though – maybe it has something to do with a sustained transfer speed.
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10.5.8
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