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NTSC ProRes project wrong
FCP X project setting is NTSC 720×486 29.97i. The render format is ProRes.
Source is 720×486 29.97i ProRes rendered out of After Effects.When I place this source on the FCP X project timeline, spatial conform kicks in and needs to be rendered. It is set to “fit”. When I set it to “none”, I see a slight picture change. Maybe 1 or 2 pixels worth. The render bar goes away. The exported file is slightly softer than the original source.
When I render/export this exact same clip in After Effects as uncompressed (instead of ProRes) and place it onto the same FCP X project timeline, there is no spatial change and no colored render bar. The exported file matches the quality of the original.
It seems like FCP X somehow does not correctly understand NTSC ProRes files. The exact same files function as expected (no visual quality loss) in FCP 7.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
24 Replies
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Might it be resizing from 720×486 to 720×480?
Walter Soyka
Principal & Designer at Keen Live
Motion Graphics, Widescreen Events, Presentation Design, and Consulting
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[Walter Soyka] “Might it be resizing from 720×486 to 720×480?”
Nope. All size, field order and frame rate settings are correct. They also all match when you view the inspector. One thing that’s odd, though, is this. When I place the ProRes and the uncompressed file back-to-back on the same timeline and view the clip properties in the inspector, the uncompressed file is only displayed with an NTSC “badge”, but the ProRes file is displayed with both NTSC and 1080p “badges” (NTSC highlighted).
In any case no such quality issue occurs when these exact same files are used in FCP 7.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
A further interesting issue seems to be that this has something to do with the After Effects export. When I “wash” the ProRes file from AE through FCP 7 and re-import that version into X, everything is fine. Maybe the metadata for PAR from AE is somehow incompatible coming from AE. If so, it only seems to affect ProRes renders, as the same AE settings rendered as uncompressed are OK.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
FYI – here are two screen grabs of the timeline with the same test pattern clip exported from AE. The first clip is ProRes and the second is uncompressed. Note the differences in render bars and the inspector info.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
I rendered out of AE CS6 and this is what QT Edit reports.
This is lower field first out of AE, FCPX hasn’t been used yet.
Here’s a file generated out of FCPX:
And FCP7:
AE UC 8Bit:
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Thanks for that info. Yes, I agree that AE is somehow encoding different attributes, though not actually different content. This is AE CS6. But in FCP X the correct field dominance at least is recognized (or at least set in the inspector) when I look at the file. It is interlaced and correctly displayed that way. Nevertheless the exact same set of files have no issue in FCP 7 and I can export the same comp in AE, simply changing the encoder between uncompressed and ProRes and there’s a difference in FCP X. Granted AE may not be encoding ProRes right, but as in other cases, I presume it’s really just handing off the encode to QT under the hood.
This is the second time FCP X has been problematic for me with SD media. The other is that it does not properly handle 480 media in a 486 timeline. I would recommend not working with compressed SD formats in FCP X and sticking to uncompressed and 720×486 (NTSC D1) in the future. Or use a different NLE for your SD projects. As I said FCP 7 works better for this.
– Oliver
Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com -
[Oliver Peters] “This is the second time FCP X has been problematic for me with SD media. The other is that it does not properly handle 480 media in a 486 timeline”
FCP 6 (?) did this too, or whenever the auto scale was released. It was fixed in a point release.
What’s interesting to me is that Ae is encoding the wrong aspect, but only for ProRes, and for some reason av foundation is not liking it, but qt/fcp7 is fine with it.
Unfortunately, there’s no option to change to regular D1 aspect in QT Edit. If you change the aspect to widescreen, is shows up as anamorphic in fcpx, but there’s no render bar. The aspect is set to D1 with an anamorphic flag.
So, we can tell Apple to be less strict with their importing options, chase Adobe to see what they can do on their end, and ask Digital Rebellion to add a normal D1 option.
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I just wanted to mention that the Pixel Aspect Ratio field in QT Edit is editable so you can enter 10:11 manually and it will work.
My software:
Pro Maintenance Tools – Tools to keep Final Cut Studio, Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer and Adobe Premiere Pro running smoothly and fix problems when they arise
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Well this same PAR problem exists also with PAL files. Actually it’s currently impossible to work correctly in SD between Adobe softwares (AE & PPRO) and FCPX when using Prores as your files because:
1) Like you noticed PAR is not exactly same in Adobe & Apple softwares and this leads to light softening in FCPX.
2) Color profiles (HD709, NTSC, PAL) are not tagged to Prores files. FCPX is first program that actually uses that metadata and at least in PAL lands this leads to problems because FCPX assumes that even PAL sized Prores files (rendered from AE) have NTSC color profile and this leads to slightly shifted colours.
Also one thing why FCPX in current form is not suitable to SD workflows is how it handles non-square material and effects. FCPX engine scales everything to square pixel before motion template based effects are processed in it. So for example when I’m cutting SD PAL Anamorphic (720 x 575) and add motion template based effect to it -> FCPX first scales it to 1050×576 -> Processes effect in 1050×576 -> Scales it back to 720×576 to timeline. And this naturally leads to very bad softening.
There seems to be some intelligence because this doesn’t seem to happen in some very simple motion based effects (some looks that only have levels in it). But all 3rd party filters have this problem. Add for example Magic Bullet Looks (without any actual look) to some anamorphic SD material and material gets badly softened.
So currently FCPX works nicely if you work in square pixel HD but in SD it’s bad…
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Tapio HaajaOn-Air Promotion Producer
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QT Edit can fix all of those problems:
https://www.digitalrebellion.com/promediaMy software:
Pro Maintenance Tools – Tools to keep Final Cut Studio, Final Cut Pro X, Avid Media Composer and Adobe Premiere Pro running smoothly and fix problems when they arise
Pro Media Tools – Edit QuickTime chapters and metdata, detect gamma shifts, edit markers, watch renders and more
More tools…
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