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Standard Def HVX200 problems
We are having a problem with footage shoot in standard def. All hard lines whether vertical or horizontal look jagged or stair stepped. The image looks that way whether just hooked to a monitor component or composite. the recorded video looks the same way. When we switch to any of the HD formats this problem goes away and the image looks great.
We are trying to use some of this HVX200 480 60i footage in a program shot mostly on DVCpro 50-tape and these jagged edges just won’t cut it.
Anyone else have this problem? Ideas?
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14 Replies
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Where is your vertical detail set, Thick, Thin, Mid?
What are your other settings? Which camera are you trying to mactch in DVCPRO50?Best,
Jan
Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems -
I was shooting with scene file 5 cine V – which I now see is set up with Thick V detail. I guess I should stick to Scene file 1. If we want a similar look. I realize they won’t match exactly. We just want it to be similar looking video frame rates.
We are going to be migrating to P2 (HVX200’s & SPX800’s) but currently we shoot tape with AJ-D900’s.
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I have a had a similar problem in 60i. It was brought to my attention by a client who complained about it on a diagonal line while using OIS handheld ( which I don’t think had anything to do with it.) I saw it again while shooting buses for an industrial.
I then compared to a DVX100A which did not seem so bad. 100A seemed similar in 60i or progressive.
The HVX seemed noticeably worse in 60i than in progressive.
Serious issue to me because I am using this as an SD camera even more than HD.
I also had setting at Thick & Detail at aprox 0.
I have not had time for a careful test & I have asked friends to confirm.
You are the first guys who have seen this as well.
Have you compared to other SD min DV cameras to see if this is just typical minDV or not? -
We have shot to DV tape in scene file 1 on several occassions, and have not seen any problem with the footage. In fact several people ahve said it looks as good as our Sony 300 DVCAM 1/2″ cameras shot at the same time…
I’ll have to check the scene file 5 results when things slow down a bit…
Mitch Ives
Insight Productions Corp.
mitch@insightproductions.comApple Certified Trainer: Final Cut pro 5
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We have been having the same ‘jagged” interlace artifact in most of our DVCPRO 50 60i footage using the HVX 200 with P2 card. The lines are especially severe on thin hard edges like fishing rods or telephone wires, edges of boats, ropes, docks ect. The problem is quite extreme in some cases especially when panning or tilting the camera .
On thing that seems to help but does NOT solve the problem is to set the detail level to -4 in scene file 1. All the other settings in that scene file are left at default. Another go around that we have used that does seem to fix the problem is to bring your footage in uncompressed via the component out of the camera. Unfourtunately you have to use cature now in FCP and you get no timecode, which renders most projects useless imn multi cam shoots.
I hope it is only a setting issue and not a codec issue,. We have had several programs that are way below the quality that we have in dvcam not in image color quality. but rather the degree of the diagonal lines moving through the picture on shots with motion completely ruin the shot.
Does anyone have any advice with regards to this??
SF Enterprises Inc.
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We have been having the same ‘jagged” interlace artifact in most of our DVCPRO 50 60i footage using the HVX 200 with P2 card. The lines are especially severe on thin hard edges like fishing rods or telephone wires, edges of boats, ropes, docks ect. The problem is quite extreme in some cases especially when panning or tilting the camera .
On thing that seems to help but does NOT solve the problem is to set the detail level to -4 in scene file 1. All the other settings in that scene file are left at default. Another go around that we have used that does seem to fix the problem is to bring your footage in uncompressed via the component out of the camera. Unfourtunately you have to use cature now in FCP and you get no timecode, which renders most projects useless imn multi cam shoots.
I hope it is only a setting issue and not a codec issue,. We have had several programs that are way below the quality that we have in dvcam not in image color quality. but rather the degree of the diagonal lines moving through the picture on shots with motion completely ruin the shot.
Does anyone have any advice with regards to this??
SF Enterprises Inc.
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Thanks for the info. That is the exact problem we are having. We have found that if we capture out of the camera video out (firewire or composite yuk) the problem mostly goes away. When we do any sort of file tranfer (which is what we are efforting to do – go tapeless) the Jaggies are unacceptably bad.
I’m not sure where to go from here. Is it a interlace/Progressive problem? Is it a 3:2 pulldown problem? A settings in FCP ingest problem?
Obviously the camera when playing the files out takes care of it. Help Jan.
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Hi,
I am at NAB and have to do a lot of other things that if I don’t get them done, I won’t have a job. So trying to figure out exactly what the problem is will be difficult as I am not on the trade show floor, I am holed up in my hotel room, prepping a presentation.
My thoughts are that the files are set as if the camera was going to be used in High Def. So start looking at the detail numbers and back them down. Look at the vertical detail and see in that is in thick. When I have an opportunity I will set one of the consultants onto the task of finding the right detail settings cause I do believe that this is where the problem lies, the factory preset the camera detail for a HD look. I do have a very happy customer that is shooting with his SDX900, but he is using 24P, so his settings probably will not work for you if you are looking for 60i. I know that New York 1 is using it as a DVCPRO25 camera and are happy, so maybe a variation from their look would work. But those connections will take a bit of time to gather, especially since most of them are on their way to Las Vegas and no longer near a tech bench.
Experiment in the meantime, I will be back.
Later,
Jan
Jan Crittenden Livingston
Product Manager, DVCPRO, DVCPRO50, AG-DVX100
Panasonic Broadcast & TV Systems -
Ok, Have gotten some better results with the “Jaggie” but at a cost. Still shooting DVCPRO 50 480/60i with HVX 200 on P2 cards. Still importing to FCP via firewire.
In Scene 1 I have set the Detail to a -5 and the jaggies get better but still not gone. At -7 the jaggies go almost completely away but you introduce an unacceptable “soft” look to the whole image as well as what looks like noise when moving the camera. Even at -5 there is some softness and noise when moving camera. Maybe a lower setting -4 or -3 may work for you RICH.
Also in Scene File 1 have tried to set the Vertical Detail FREQ to THICK as Jan suggested, but you cannot change that setting with the camera set to DVCPRO 50 480/60i. The setting here seems to stays at THIN.
Have played with the detail coring some and that seems to just change direction of the Jags but maybe there is something there.
The only other solution for the time being is to shoot in DVCPRO HD and downconver to SD but that seems like a waste of disk space when there are projects that don’t require that.
Have run out of time to keep messing with this, need to get back to production but a little hesitant to use this cam in these setting until some of this is ironed out. Too much money spent on location and manpower to have an unreliable image. I know we are feeling some growing pains with this and hopefully all this will be resolved.
All the best,
Jose WejjebeSF Enterprises Inc.
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I compared HVX @ 60i 4:3 to my old Sony PD100 today looking through the Y/C connector.
Not from tape only live.
Definately more jaggies on the HCX I’m sad to say.
I set my detail to aprox match of the sharpness on the Sony.Jan, I don’t think this has anything to do with “Thick” vs Thin settings (I’ve always been on Thick) , and you shouldn’t have to eviserate your detail to get a decent picture.
BTW I have only checked this at 4:3 since I am usually looking at matching an SD 4:3 camera in these situations.
Also I haven’t taken the time to compare recorded tape off the same deck which is really most important.
Maybe its just a video output issue on the camera? I hope so but I doubt it since my client complained about Tape.( BTW i thought I posted something to this effect earlier but didn’t see it just now so my apologies if there is a double post.)
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