-
DV-25 and DV-50 quality comparison
hi all,
A lot of discussion here seems to go DVCproHD, which is ( certainly in europe) still a non-issue.
Far more important at the moment, is the addition of DVCpro50.Then the question arises: how good is DVCpro50 compared to DVCpro25 and DV?
There are not a lot of hard facts around, doing some Googl’ing.So there is only one thing to it, DIY!
I’ve did some tests comparing 50Mbps to 25Mbps, and I think the results speak for themselves.
<https://www.eleventy.org/dv-en/>
eLeventy
-
12 Replies
-
Hi, eLeventy: Great stuff & much appreciated.
As I’m heading towards a decision to buy a DVCPRO-50 capable SPX800 camcorder, info such as what you’ve provided is very helpful. Thanks again!
All the best,
– Peter
Just a friendly reminder to all: Please consider filling-in your COW user profile information so we have a better idea who you are, where you’re from, and so forth. It’s the friendly thing to do. Thanks!
-
Very interesting–thanks for doing that!
-
Nice comparison Eleventy, thanks for taking the time to do that.
The results aren’t all that suprising, given the lower compression rate of DVCPro50, but it’s nice to be able to see the side by side.I wonder if you could render out some DVCProHD results so we can see how the higher compression & resolution will compare with the DVCPro50 results.
In fact, the thing I’d be most curious to see is an uprezzed DVCPro50 side by side with a DVCProHD test.
Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas -
[Luis Caffesse] “I wonder if you could render out some DVCProHD results so we can see how the higher compression & resolution will compare with the DVCPro50 results.
In fact, the thing I’d be most curious to see is an uprezzed DVCPro50 side by side with a DVCProHD test.”
Kinda difficult. My system( Avid Xpress Pro) only does SD. So uprezzing this way is a nono. Would have to get my hand on the codec, and do it another way.
Doing it by math gives the following:
( if we compare 786×576 SD to 1920×1080 HD PAL)
Image is 186% larger.
4.5 times more pixels ( 0.44Megapixel to 2.07 Mp)So roughly:
We have 4 times more pixels to fill, with only double the bandwith ( compared to DV50)
or, compared to DV25: 4xpixels with 4xbandwidth.If my math is correct: the HD gets the same amount of data per pixel as DV25 ( in 1080i),
so quality should be similar to DV25, but in HD. Math will differ when using other HD( 720p, …)( which leaves room for a future DVCproHD+ / DVCpro200 😎
eLeventy
-
Excellent! Very well done — simple, elegant, to the point, easy to follow, and you clearly outlined your methodology as well as provided the original source graphic so others could conduct their own tests. Also, excellent choice of codecs, because DVCPRO25 let you choose 4:1:1 vs. 4:2:0 but with the same compression.
Thanks for this very nice work!
—————–
Get the most from your DVX camera. The DVX Book and DVX DVD are now available at https://www.dvxuser.com/articles/dvxbook/ and at Amazon (https://tinyurl.com/54u4a) -
[eLeventy] “Kinda difficult. My system( Avid Xpress Pro) only does SD. So uprezzing this way is a nono. Would have to get my hand on the codec, and do it another way. “
Perhaps someone else out there who has the capabilities would be willing to render out a quick test for us?
Any takers?
You’re right in your math, as far as I can tell, in terms of what we should expect to see. But, as your tests show, it’s really nice to be able to see the side by side, so I think it would be a great addition to see DVCProHD as well as DVCPro50, given that you’ll have HD resolution but twice the compression. Sometimes it’s hard for people to understand what effect each of these factors will have on the final image. There’s nothing quite like seeing a side by side to clear things up.
Thanks again.
Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas -
I used material shot on Digibeta 16:9, using maximal 2 layers on DVCPro25 and rendered it with DVCPro50 codec. From there I made DVD’s. The film doesn’t show any quality loss on DVD. I think it’s important to shoot on 2/3 Chip, real 16:9 with proper lenses. Whether 25 or 50 or HD, if it comes to DVD with max. 8Mb/s the difference is not visible.
Rainer
-
[eLeventy] “If my math is correct: the HD gets the same amount of data per pixel as DV25 ( in 1080i),
so quality should be similar to DV25, but in HD. Math will differ when using other HD( 720p, …)”This is why HDV is such a bad idea in my mind. I’ll take the HVX200 over anything HDV any day of the week…except sunday – that’s my day off 😉
Great test BTW I am probably just as excited abotu DV50 as I am about the HD capabilities of this cam.
gl
-
[Rainer Wirth] ” I used material shot on Digibeta 16:9, using maximal 2 layers on DVCPro25 and rendered it with DVCPro50 codec. From there I made DVD’s. The film doesn’t show any quality loss on DVD. I think it’s important to shoot on 2/3 Chip, real 16:9 with proper lenses. Whether 25 or 50 or HD, if it comes to DVD with max. 8Mb/s the difference is not visible.”
The source material I used was CGI, and very hard on the Codec( on purpose). It was kind of a worst case scenario. Natural shots are generally much less demanding( less high-contrast sharp divides, less color saturation in adjacent parts), so they compress much beter. In fact, DCT compressions make use of insensitivities in the human eyes towards natural images( not CGI).
When you ‘downgrade’ towards DVD in the end, you throw out a lot of detail( DVD is not such a high quality, contrary to what salespeople try to make us believe), so it doesn’t seem to matter in the end. It doesn’t in the end, but it does matter in the beginning, acquiring ( Why else would you use Digibeta), and in the middle: Post, compositing.
I am planning to do a similar test next week or so, using ( natural) material shot on a P2 ( the SPX-800), a XDCAM ( Sony IMX and DVcam), possibly a Ikegami, and Digibeta. That is, if I find the time.
eLeventy
-
As an addition to Eleventy’s great comparison Barry Green took the time to render out some examples of the DVCProHD codec as well as the HDV codec using the same sample picture Eleventy used in his original test.
As Barry was careful to point out, this is comparison of codecs, not of cameras.
720P comparison:
https://www.icexpo.com/dvx100/720vs720.png1080i comparison:
https://www.icexpo.com/dvx100/1080vs1080.PNGFor details on the method used to get these samples, check out Barry’s explanation here:
https://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=26165
Enjoy.
Luis Caffesse
Studio 3 Productions, Inc.
Austin, Texas
Reply to this Discussion! Login or Sign Up