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Set-up – basics and work habits
Any tips on the order you use to achieve the look you are after? Do you, for example, start with x number of lights and then play with or turn off one at a time, or do you add lights after setting up the key? I know there are no hard and fast rules but just trying to develop some basic practices. I often find less is more.
After finding the look you want are there any tricks to not having a boom pole kill your design? It’s not always easy to get the mike within 3 feet of the subject’s mouth and not have it throw an unwanted shadow, even with the talent as far as possible from the b.g. It’s sometimes easier to just go with a lav even if a hypercardoid has better sound. When you start adding flags do you find it changes your design dramatically or does hiding flaws get easier with experience?
When you are setting up, do you have more than one monitor in use so that the camera operator and crew member adjusting a light can see the results as they change its height, angle, distance?
It can be quite a challenge to experiment with a look and not get connections and interconnects tangled or strained. After settling on a set up, I often need to turn the house lights back on and clean up our interconnects before shooting. Add some talent/camera movement and you have another whole set of variables to work out.
Since all this takes time, do you find it easier to use stand-ins for your talent so they don’t get anxious? I think it would be better for the talent to come into a set that has been fixed and then only have to sit through slight adjustments and a mike check than all the experimenting it takes to get the lighting and camera angles correct. Also I don’t always want the talent seeing themselves on the monitors and if the monitor is facing the lighting crew then talent can see them selves.
I know experience and experience in a certain setting is key, but I’m sure the pros here must develop a work flow … Care to share?
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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18 Replies
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Any tips on the order you use to achieve the look you are after? Do you, for example, start with x number of lights and then play with or turn off one at a time, or do you add lights after setting up the key? I know there are no hard and fast rules but just trying to develop some basic practices. I often find less is more.
The number of lights we have depends on: the budget, the space(s) we are lighting, the look we are after. In general, I tell the gaffer the look I want, where the key should be, what kind of key (hard/soft/other) and then leave it to him/her to make it work. A good gaffer will set his crew to setting up multiple lights. Once the gaffer is mostly pleased I’ll take a careful look and may make changes.
After finding the look you want are there any tricks to not having a boom pole kill your design? It’s not always easy to get the mike within 3 feet of the subject’s mouth and not have it throw an unwanted shadow, even with the talent as far as possible from the b.g. It’s sometimes easier to just go with a lav even if a hypercardoid has better sound. When you start adding flags do you find it changes your design dramatically or does hiding flaws get easier with experience?
I work closely with sound, and try to not trap them. A hard key from one side may work just fine if the boom person can come in from the other and miss that light, probably helped by a judicious flag or two set by the grips. Soft keys are easier to handle for boom shadow, though harder to flag correctly. Sometimes sound will have to work with radio lavs instead of a boom because the shot is so wide and high. Yes, placing flags effectively gets easier with experience, like everything else about lighting. Having a great, experienced crew is a joy for the DP.
When you are setting up, do you have more than one monitor in use so that the camera operator and crew member adjusting a light can see the results as they change its height, angle, distance?
How many monitors depends a lot on the budget and also the circumstances of the shoot. I try to get a color-critical monitor by the camera, another for the director, and then a separate video village for the DIT. Sometimes we have to make do with just one monitor shared by all. I also work at seeing by eye what the results are without looking at the monitor. Part of the fun.
Since all this takes time, do you find it easier to use stand-ins for your talent so they don’t get anxious? I think it would be better for the talent to come into a set that has been fixed and then only have to sit through slight adjustments and a mike check than all the experimenting it takes to get the lighting and camera angles correct. Also I don’t always want the talent seeing themselves on the monitors and if the monitor is facing the lighting crew then talent can see them selves.
Another budget question. The more expensive the shoot, the more expensive the talent, the more likely production will provide stand ins. Of course it’s easier to work with the real actors, but totally boring for them, so whenever possible I try to work with stand ins. As for the talent seeing themselves, I always place my monitor facing the camera, not the talent. The director’s monitor will likely be also set where talent does not see itself.
Rick Wise
Cinematographer
San Francisco Bay Area
https://www.RickWiseDP.com -
It’s interesting to compare the way that Rick works to the way that I usually work (chiefly because I have to), which in some ways are radically different than each other… and some ways much the same.
My projects (which are mostly broadcast commercials) are usually quite small compared to the real world… our budgets are small and our crews are tiny. Our average commercial project usually only has a total budget in the $10-15K neighborhood (rarely much more, and sometimes a lot less), so that dictates how we have to do things. I almost always work with the same crew that’s usually three (sometimes four) people, including me, so there’s a lot of job sharing which also dictates how lighting is effected.
I haven’t been on a big shoot like Rick described complete with a sharp gaffer and full crew in a loooong time… and even then it was in my previous life as an actor, not since I moved behind the camera. On our shoots, I always direct, and DP, and camera op. The closest thing we have to a gaffer is our editor who usually comes on our shoots, and he does sound duty as well. The upside to that is that we all know how each other work, and my guys (the same exact crew for almost 10 years) usually know exactly what I want even before I ask for it.
We usually have a talk right off the bat about what my rough idea of a lighting design is, and the guys (and I) jump to making it happen. We almost always travel with the same exact inventory of lighting instruments and grip gear, so by this point they know my brain pretty well. It does evolve over time though… for example I’m in my “daylight phase” right now which means a lot of flo and HMI lighting, in instances where I might have purely used tungsten a couple of years ago. Things change, but the guys keep up well.
I’ve never really had to worry about boom shadows, although now that you have mentioned it I will probably be fighting them on my next shoot. It’s probably because, as Rick also mentioned, I tend to use very soft keys… either a large softbox or more often these days a white 4×4 bounce… and those rarely cause problematic boom shadows. I will on occasion put a lav on talent, but we almost always boom. Lavs just sound so clinical and sterile, whereas a good boom (we use Sennheiser MKH416 shotguns for booms, a great mic) just sounds so warm and open and natural. I’ll only put a lav on an actor when a shot is too wide or otherwise physically wont allow for booming. In those cases, yes, we will put a radio mic on them… but I find that often in editing we’ll use an audio lift from a boomed take because they sound so much better.
I only use one monitor, ever. That’s usually all we ever unpack, and sometimes all we even travel with. I can count on one hand the times we’ve used two or three. It stays near the camera, usually positioned in a way that talent can’t see it. That’s especially important if you’re dealing with anyone other than professional actors.
As for stand-ins… we never hire “real” stand-ins… our budgets don’t allow that. But I will often snag a crew member or even one of the client’s hangers-on to do some impromptu stand-in work, then do final tweaking with the real talent.
And yeah…it gets easier through time.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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Great description, Todd. And you are lucky to have the same crew for ten years. That speaks volumes about your choices and also how you lead the pack.
I’m afraid I haven’t had a full-up shoot such as I described for at least three years. On the most recent shoot (just this week, three commercials in two days,) I had one gaffer/grip with one large LED light on a pole and another small one for car interiors that went right on the camera. Mostly hand held or else on sticks. No monitor at all. Oh but we did have a “dolly”: a wheel chair. Shot with the Canon EOS c300, which I like and in some ways don’t like for this quick style shooting. And I had an AC to wrangle data and lug stuff around, and a sound guy to both boom and run radio mics. Each one terrific. I miss the great full-ups but you make what you can get as great as possible!
Rick Wise
Cinematographer
San Francisco Bay Area
https://www.RickWiseDP.com -
Not to highjack the thread, Rick, but how do you like the C300?
I’ve been thinking it’s probably my next camera. We might have grabbed one by now already, but we want the PL mount version and I think it wasn’t released until this weekend (at least you could only pre-order it from B&H until now, although I just looked and it is now listed as orderable). I know the EF version has been out for a little while, but only have spoken with a couple of people who have used them.
I like everything I’ve seen/heard/read about them… except I wish it had an interchangeable mount and I didn’t have to pick between EF and PL. We have great PL glass though that I’m not going to give up, so I’ve been waiting for the C300PL.
Again, sorry for the hijack! Other DPs feel free to keep chiming in to Craig’s original post… will be interested to hear that too.
T2
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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com
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Thanks so much for your responses. It’s very interesting to hear how different pros approach their craft. Obviously, every shoot is different, but I do think pros have a workflow that they return to again and again. I also think that if you can do it all, it makes you better at your job when you do have a full crew and you are responsible for one element.
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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Todd,
I’d rather chime in on your reply!
I’d recommend the Sony F3, especially now that they’re essentially including the S-Log and 444RGB features for free (thanks in large part to the competition of the C300). I’ve been using F3’s for almost a year now and am very happy with their flexibility, sensitivity and great rendition of skin tone (watch the Katie Couric interview with Eva Longoria this week on GMA – all three shots with F3’s), and on the horizon is the new NEX FS700 which is a 4K version of the FS100 and kitted out with the Solid Camera add-ons becomes a very robust, compact 35mm sensor PL-Mount camera for about $12K. The imager must be related to that in the new F65 camera.
The recording format weakness with the FS100 (and lack of full quality output spigot, which also hampers the C300) will be accommodated with a full 444-10 bit or more output in the FS700. You’ll probably also see this camera kitted out with Solid Camera accessories at the Sony booth at NAB. You still need this type of 3rd party kit to convert the NEX’s to PL mount, but with adapters (unlike the C300) you can use any mount (E,PL, Nikon, Canon, etc.).
While 4K exhibition in the near term will be limited to high end cinema use, the ability to “down-sample” from 4K to HD will defiantly enhance the image and minimize moire and artifacts, and find additional use in VFX’s. There will be lots of 4K stuff at NAB this year.
JS
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Can’t you just use a PL adapter? Or does that compromise the image in some way?
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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Craig,
PL mount lenses can be very large and heavy, so serious “support” is required to keep the alignment correct and the lens mount from being damaged. This has required after market suppliers like Solid Camera, Hot Rod Camera, Element Technica, Zacuto, Chroszeil, Vocus, Arri and others to design complete systems for this purpose, not to mention balancing the load on the tripod head.
A prime lens can weight 4-6 pounds and a large zoom like a 12X Optimo is 24 lbs and almost 18″ long, which creates a lot of leverage. Even full sized movie and digital movie cameras require a support system for these lenses, the lens mount adapter you mention is just one part of the necessary kit.
JS
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Understood, but it is possible to use both kinds of lenses with this cam? I mean you need support for large lenses anyway. Complete focus control is critical at this resolution. So yes the whole kit.
Our next cam will be the Pana P2 HPX250. Not quite in this league but very versatile.
I had the experience of watching a 4k projection at RED studios recently. The detail was incredible. At times almost too much so. Plus you know 4K requires a lot of storage. I’m hoping Apple will release the next Mac Pro soon. Whatever form it may take. Maybe modular like these cameras.
OSX 10.5.8; MacBookPro4,1 Intel Core 2 Duo 2.5 GHz MacPro4,1 2.66GHz 8 core 12gigs of ram. GPU: Nvidia Geoforce GT120 with Vram 512. OS X 10.6.x; Camcorders: Sony Z7U, Canon HV30/40, Sony vx2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.
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John, I love your “will defiantly enhance the image”. Yes to that!
As to Todd’s question about the c300: Here’s what I found with two days of running around the streets of San Francisco shooting our local police:
Good: relatively light and hand-holdable without any rig. I had considered the F3 but it’s bigger and harder to hold.
good: Peakng with red to indicate what’s in focus is pretty slick.
good: excellent eyepiece and flip-out monitor, though the flip-out is useless outdoors without some sort of hood.
good: Fairly good range of exposure, and can be set up to sort of emulate the Alexas, though when you do that an ISO of 1250 becomes a working ISO of 160.Not so good: impossible to use external follow focus with marks on Canon lenses; not so with PL glass.
Not so good: no auto anything — for doco work I like having the ability to punch up auto focus, then go back to manual; ditto for iris
Not so good: no histogram or waveform (The F3 has a histogram — I’d much prefer the waveform.
Not so good: no way to toggle through Zebras; I like to be able to see 100%, then 70%; on the c300 you have to go into the menu and select one or the other, unless you want to put up with both at the same time. I screwed up one set of shots by protecting highlights thinking the zebras were on 100 when in fact they were on 70 — a couple of stops under exposed.I’m no gear head and leave it to others to do so. In sum, I enjoyed the camera a lot for the purpose I had. For more controlled shooting with sticks/dolly I’d pick the Alexa first and the F3 second. But the c300 with PL mount and good glass could also be a very viable camera. As with all video you do have to protect for highlights — anything above 100% is gone, gone, gone. Blown out windows or elements of the shot, no problem But if the highlight on a forehead goes to clip, ugly….
I think John’s reasons for the F3 are solid, but I don’t think hand-holding works so well. Here are a couple of shots of the c300 with me behind the lens. The lens is a Canon 17-55 T/2.8, fairly sweet for hand-held work, though I wish it went to 85 or so on the long end:
Rick Wise
Cinematographer
San Francisco Bay Area
https://www.RickWiseDP.com
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