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How does AVID handle image scaling?
A disclaimer first – I was an AVID guy about 12 years ago. I started a small shop around FCP when it came out and now, feeling somewhat abandoned by Apple, am returning to AVID. A rather common story these days I suppose. I understand FCP and AVID are different and I’m not trying to make AVID (Symphony, in particular) work like FCP, just want to know how AVID is working under the hood.
So, here’s the question. Say I create a 720p project in Symphony. I AMA link to a 1080p clip. In the format column of the bin, that AMA clip has been interpreted as 720p. If I change the project format to 1080p, those same clips instantly change to 1080p in the format column. Obviously these clips are not really changing as they are AMA clips and have been 1080 all the time.
I get that AVID wants to format clips on the fly to match the project settings, but here’s what I’m wondering. If the project is 720p and I AMA link to a 1080p file THAT I THEN WANT TO BLOW UP 150% in the timeline, is AVID shrinking the 1080 image to 720 (losing resolution) then blowing the resulting 720 file up 150%, or is it smart enough to know that all it really needs to do is shrink the 1080p image LESS??
A corresponding FCP scenario that we use occasionally is to create additional focal lengths by putting 1080 stuff in a 720 timeline and resizing; creating additional edit options but without losing quality by blowing up the image more than 100%. FCP shrinks the 1080 to fit in the 720 timeline but shows that image as having been scaled DOWN below 100%. Scaling it to 100% has the EFFECT of looking like it has been scaled up, but in reality it has only been scaled to it’s original 100%.
Thanks for reading this far. This is just one of those “wonder how AVID” does it kind of things. I appreciate any help.
Thanks
Chris Tomberlin
Editor/Compositor/Owner
OutPost Pictures -
8 Replies
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It’s a double scale – not of the resize parameters are sent back to the original resolution – same for R3D and other AMA linked files.
Michael
Michael Phillips
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How does AVID handle image scaling?
Badly.Couldn’t resist. 😉
online editor | colorist | VFX | BD author
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My understanding is that the Avid Scaler is an offline quality feature and is designed to give fast processing and as much realtime playback as possible.
Hence many of the steps you describe still result in realtime playback which is a big time saving when being creative.
But as a finishing process it’s less than ideal. So I’d be processing those effects external to the Avid based on the offline guide and replacing those affected shots.Pat Horridge
Technical Director, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
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In short, there is no way to do that you want to do in Avid without losing quality. It will force everything to be visualized at 720p upon import, no exceptions.
I hate to say it, but this is just one of those obvious flaws that I hope they work on one day.
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I just tried what I was asking about in Premiere CS5 and it handles the scaling properly. It’s really curious how AVID is clearly “more professional” in many ways and yet clearly flawed in others.
Will AVID continue to listen to it’s customers or stop after we all abandon FCP ??
Chris Tomberlin
Editor/Compositor/Owner
OutPost Pictures -
[Chris Tomberlin] “I just tried what I was asking about in Premiere CS5 and it handles the scaling properly. It’s really curious how AVID is clearly “more professional” in many ways and yet clearly flawed in others.
Will AVID continue to listen to it’s customers or stop after we all abandon FCP ??”
yeah it’s a drag, but sort of a doubled edged sword. Ever tried doing a camera move on a low rez proxy in Premiere/FCP, and then relink/uprez later? Anyways, the moves will be off, and you’ll have to redo them because of this resolution independence thing. The reason Avid can change resolutions and accurately replicate any camera moves is because of these ‘baked in’ rules about resolution.
Not really defending it, as it irks me just the same at times, just showing you the flip side, which has equally caused me headaches while working as an assistant in FCP.
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[Daniel Frome] ” Ever tried doing a camera move on a low rez proxy in Premiere/FCP, and then relink/uprez later? Anyways, the moves will be off, and you’ll have to redo them because of this resolution independence thing.”
Ahh yes, thanks for pointing this out. I’ve had this exact issue with FCP. I suppose what I really want then is a CHOICE. Especially with Symphony since it is supposedly more of a finishing tool. A check box that says “Don’t save me from myself, I know what I’m doing” would be great.
Chris Tomberlin
Editor/Compositor/Owner
OutPost Pictures -
Hi all,
first post in a long time, and its because of my recent journey to avid from final cut.
This thread essentially answers the big question I’ve had to get resolved so thank you.So my next question is… what’s the workflow you use then?
I’ve got a 15min edit of interviews on green screen all shot at fixed framing (med shot) at 1080p.
Output will be most likely SD or 720p maximum.In the past I’ve cut in FCP, auto duck to AE with all my re-frames from FCP in tack and keyed and finished.
whats industry practice for AVID if re-frames need to happen?
Thanks for your help.
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