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Why Avid?
I had been seriously looking into Vegas, but I recently discovered that through my work I could get access to Avid academically priced software/hardware.
While I have heard a lot about Avid, I know next to nothing as to what makes it different/better than other editing/fx packages.
That leaves me with the following four questions for starters:
1) What is the essential Avid difference?
2) How difficult is the learning curve both\ in and of itself and as compared to things like Premier or Vegas?
3) Can anyone recommend a book or Video/DVD that would give me a good feel of what the world of Avid is all about?
4) What academically priced configuration would anyone recommend? -
11 Replies
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Well, instead of writing a brilliant response on how great Avid is (and I do think it’s a pretty good system), Let me ask you this: What are you planning to do with it?
Please forgive me if it sounds like I’m talking down to you. I’m really not. BUT, I’ll bet if you go on a carpentry message board, you will never see the question “Which hammer is better – Craftsman or Husky?”
Avid is a tool, just like Premiere, Final Cut and Vegas. They all have their strengths. Avid is great at media management but it’s title tool sucks. Premiere’s strength is it’s seamless integration with AE, PhotoShop and Encore. I hate its interface (just my opinion). Vegas’ strength is it’s audio capability. Final Cut Pro is Mac specific. Want to upgrade your CPU just to get the latest greatest FCP version? Not to mention the numerous Mac-phobic network administrators out there. Want to have some fun? Tell your IT guy your hooking up a mac to their network…
I like Avid – I’ve used one since 1995. But if my boss told me we were switching to another platform, I’d do so in an instant (after whining a little bit, of course).
Pratically speaking, Avid is very picky about hardware, and even the academic version can cost a good bit more than Premeire or Vegas.
Bottom line? It’s the story thats important.
Jon
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Dear Jon:
Thanks for your response, and I am sorry for my lack of one. For the better part of a week I’ve been busy with a family wedding.
I do not know why you are apologetic about talking down to someone as abysmaly ignorant as I am of high tech or even low tech considering that I still view fountain pens as being on the cutting edge. That said, your analogy to hammers was something less than perfect because the reason one would never see the question as to hammers posted on some saw dust site is that they are essentially identical. Can you say the same for the NLEs that you mentioned?
I am looking for an NLE that:
1) has a rather beneign learning curve
2) can do what I need it to do without resort to numerous work-arounds
3) can handle text well- be it scrolling text, subtitles, full page text, or foreign charachter text (i.e. Arabic,Korean,Hebrew), with the ability to cut and past from a program like Word.
4) leaves a lot of wiggle room for voice overs.Translated, this means that I am looking for the ultimate flexibility in the manipulation of voice and text.
I would also like to see the DVD burning component/companion of the NLE easy to use and functional.
Yes, I would like to save money by buying Vegas 6.0 for $99, but I would drop a $1,000 or more for something that would play to my needs.
I will be doing documentary work, special events, educational videos and some biographical sketches. Everything will be written to “A LIST” standards, therefore even though I will be doing “small stuff” I want it to have the look of something big.
The only NLE that I know anything about is Vegas, but my knowledge runs more to what it can’t do as opposed to what it can. I recently downloaded the trial version, and watched it expire before I got a chance to take it for a spin.
I’m looking for an NLE that is above my present needs and abilities , and that is sophisticated enough to take me as far as I my immagination will allow me. I don’t want to learn a new program every to years, but I do want to learn the one I’m about to choose, so that means that adequate tutorials will be necessary.
Is there a site out there someplace that gives over the truth vis a vis the NLEs? All that ever comes my way is hype.
So what’s it going to be? Avid (and if so, which flavor?), Liquid Edit- ion (regular or Pro?), Vegas, Premiere, Canopus,
Edius,etc.This should give you a feel for my situation. Any light you can focus on this sea of darkness will be appreciated.
Bill
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As I said before – I’m an Avid editor. I’ll recommend Avid. But I’m not a Homer.
The hammer analogy fits perfectly if you consider this: Some people tend to ‘evangelize’ their system. I won’t do that. I merely wanted to point out that you need consider your goals and a lot of systems will fit the bill. From what you typed, an XPress Pro w/ a Mojo will fit perfectly. Add an Avid 101 class (or expect a lot of seat time with the tutorial) and you’ll be set. Avid is a deep box, and there will be a learning curve. However, knowing Vegas will help with the concept of non-linear editing.
You will wind up spending around 10k for a good system with decent storage. Buy from a reseller and save yourself lots of headaches. If you are a real tech head, build it yourself.
Jon
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What exactly am I getting for 10k?
I didn’t mean to mislead, but I don’t know Vegas. I only know a lot about Vegas.
As far as Avid is concerned, what is the difference between the various offerings. For instance, you mentioned Xpress Pro w/mojo. How does that differ from Avid Media Composer? Avid is offering the Media Composer with Avid Pro tools with Mbox2, Avid 3D animation, Avid FX, and Avid DVD by Sonic for $995 (educational pricing). The only thing missing is the mojo.
B&H has the xPress Pro HD with the Fx, 3D animation, Sonic DVD, and the Mojo for $999. The only thing missing is Pro Tools LE.
Which of these things are a must and which are nice to have but can be done without? Also where does Vegas stand vis a vis Pro Tools LE?
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What exactly am I getting for 10k?
I didn’t mean to mislead, but I don’t know Vegas. I only know a lot about Vegas.
As far as Avid is concerned, what is the difference between the various offerings. For instance, you mentioned Xpress Pro w/mojo. How does that differ from Avid Media Composer? Avid is offering the Media Composer with Avid Pro tools with Mbox2, Avid 3D animation, Avid FX, and Avid DVD by Sonic for $995 (educational pricing). The only thing missing is the mojo.
B&H has the xPress Pro HD with the Fx, 3D animation, Sonic DVD, and the Mojo for $999. The only thing missing is Pro Tools LE.
Which of these things are a must and which are nice to have but can be done without? Also where does Vegas stand vis a vis Pro Tools LE?
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The question you’re asking is too broad, and what you’re looking for doesn’t exist. You want an editor that’s good at everything, easy to use, doesn’t require workarounds, and can do text and voice. Doesn’t exist. However…any NLE that calls itself professional quality will let you do voice overs. And Titles. And edits. And at least some effects. So, is Avid the right NLE for you? Let’s see.
For 10K you will get a computer, storage, the software and a Mojo. Mojo is the Avid breakout box so you can bring analog footage into your system. If you’re working with all digital media (DV, P2, etc…) you don’t need a Mojo. Save your money there.
Media Composer educational isn’t available to students–only Universities, and only for the purpose of teaching people how to use Avid. It’s not a buying option for you, unless you’re a University and you’re going to teach an editing class.
The differences between Xpress Pro and Media Composer–Media Composer gives you more advanced editing features and effects like Keyframeable Motion Effects, Animatte, more resolution options, the ability to show multiple timecodes, etc… The Software version is about 5K, plus the system. You’ll easily spend 20K on a Media Composer.
What can you do with Avid? Depends on how much time you want to spend with it. There is a learning curve, and it’s rather steep. As Jon said, the program is really, really, really deep. I’ve been cutting on it for 2 years full time and have spent well over 50 hours every week for 2 years studying every single feature I come across. As far as understanding the software and what the buttons do, I like to think I know it really well. Yesterday I learned something new. There’s always something new.
That said, if you take the time to learn the program you can do almost anything with it. There are workarounds for some stuff–there are workarounds in every NLE. Avid lets you mix resolutions in the timeline (FCP doesn’t), FCP can do HD at an affordable price. Avid–well, not as affordable.The text editor in Avid is ok. You can copy from Word, do scrolls, rolls, etc…Then there’s Marquee, which comes with Avid, and is an advanced titler that lets you do 3D text. It’s powerful but kind of awkward. Many people prefer Boris or After Effects (with the Invigorator plug-in, for 3D text). I like After Effects and Marquee.
Voiceovers–Avid will let you cut audio directly into the system while you’re playing your sequence–it’s called Audio Punch-In. It’s pretty cool and great for voiceovers. ProTools will give you the muscle to really do some awesome audio work, but it’s a seperate program. I’ve never used it, but it’s touted throughout the industry as one heck of a system.
If you want to do event work, documentary stuff, etc…Avid would fit your needs. Buy a certified system if you want to work. Build your own if like to spend time troubleshooting. Avid runs on a PC or Mac (the Intel Mac version is in Beta, supposed to be released in March, I believe), you get an installer for both when you buy the software. It’s ability to take projects from one version to another and one system to another is the stuff legends are made of. People take projects from old, hardware based Xpress Meridien systems and immediately run them on brand new Symphony. Consider that.
Given what you want to do, FCP would also suit your needs. It runs on Mac only and isn’t backward compatible. You start a project in FCP 5.12 you can’t take it back. Not even to FCP 5.11, I think. You can’t mix resolutions in the timeline without rendering. However, you can buy a nice capture card and (with fast enough drives and enough storage) you can edit HD for cheap (well, cheaper than on an Avid). Consider FCP.
Adobe Premiere Pro would fit your needs, and if you get the Creative Suite you’ll get one heck of a package for an unbelievable price. Adobe Premiere still needs a lot of work and doesn’t have a good reputation with long form projects, but it’s integration with After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, and whatever the Adobe DVD program is called–well, the integration is better than anything else out there. I think Adobe is light years ahead of everyone else when it comes to integration, but their editor needs more work. It’s a contender, though, and a system to watch for the future. It’s currently PC only but Adobe announced they’re bringing it back to the Mac. Consider Adobe.
I’m not familiar with Vegas. I’d focus on the three listed above.
Take my opinion with a grain of salt–I love Avid. It’s my NLE of choice. I also use Photoshop and After Effects a lot. I don’t like FCP because I don’t like Macs and I’ve worked on buggy FCP systems. Just trying to be honest. Many people love them and great work is being on them, though.
To be honest, no one on a forum can tell you which NLE is best for you. You really need to get some time in front of one. Avid has a free version called Avid Free (search the avid website for the download). It’s an extremely watered down version of Avid but it’s free and it will introduce you to the Avid interface and method of editing (which is a lot different than FCP and Premiere). Download it and try it. Try to get some time on a FCP system. The same for Premiere. I believe you can download a trial version of Premiere. Check Abode’s site.
Best of luck, and whatever you choose–come back to the Cow for troubleshooting, tips and tricks. It’s a great place to learn.
Michael.
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Thank you Michael for the time you took to lay it out chapter and verse.
While I can afford Avid, the environment within which it needs to operate appears to be somewhat out of my reach.Thanks again,
Bill
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Okay, between your last post and Michael’s very long offering, I’ve come back to earth, and I realize that I’m from the wrong side of the tracks vis a vis Avid.
Meanwhile, I notice on your bio that you have Vegas experience, and I also noticed that you have said nothing about it.
My basic question is: Can most of the Vegas short comings be fixed by third party pluggins?
I also see that you have experience with both Sound Forge and Acid. I cannot read music, nor can I play an instrument, but nevertheless, I’m still very musical. I would to be able to create my own original loops to be used as the building blocks of larger pieces. Is there any software that will enable me to create these loops?
Bill
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I use Vegas for Audio. Mostly for multitrack stuff. It’s a lot easier than my old Teac 144 4 track tape machine. Needless to say, I think Vegas has some outstanding audio tools. I sometimes cut my audio in Vegas, then export it to Avid. Obviously I can’t edit it, but if you cut it right the first time, there’s no need (barring persnikity customers…).
You can easily create loops in Sound Forge for use in Acid. You can also use Acid to create loops, but I find Sound Forge better for my purposes.
Jon
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I use both Premiere Pro and Avid XPress. The metaphors used are quite different, so there is a learning curve going from one to the other. In the end, the output won’t look any different between them.
I’ve found the current versions of each to be about equally stable, but if XPress crashes, it is easier to recover your project than when PPro crashes. As a NLE detached from other programs, Avid is a little easier to use – once one has gotten past the learning curve. However, even though it is more expensive, it has less “features” than PPro. It can’t handle vector images. The pan and zoom feature is worse than PPro’s scaling. There are less effects. Xpress doesn’t really like avi files (and can’t create as large ones as PPro). If you get Xpress – get use to QT reference files. Although Avid owns Xpress, ProTools, and XSI – I’ve found they are not particularly well integrated. In fact, downloading the most recent version of Xpress messed up ProTools and I had to reinstall ProTools.
If you think you might do special effects, audio editing, chromakey work, and DVD authoring – the Adobe Video Suite is a much better deal. If you are doing strictly NLE editing and plan to hand your project off to a big studio or if you have thousands of files and need the better media management – Xpress is a better choice. I find Xpress slows down less than PPro for long movies. In the end, each is just a tool and you can make a great movie with either.
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