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Keylight’d DV footage slightly out of focus when exported
hey, At this point i am pretty versed in using Keylight for chroma keying, (in both SD & HD). So i am using it to pull a key from SD footage (shot on DVX) and i get a good key, definitely a dense matte, using a 2.5 pre-screen blurr, and exporting the result using Animation codec with RGB+Alpha. When i import it into FCP and compare it to the original (non-AEF Keyed) footage it is slightly more blurry/out of focus. Its not un-usable but definitely is kind of a bummer. Anyone can help me find a solution? Would be HUGE!
thanks
joshua sandler
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10 Replies
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Maybe I misunderstood something, but your post seems to contradict it’s subject (“Animation” vs. “DV”). One of the things I hate most about DV is that it is always relatively “blurry/out of focus” … especially DV25 (vs. DV50).
Either way, as Dave L. suggests, checking field order is a good place to start … both the import interpretation and the output module settings.
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… and keep in mind that you’re re-rendering your Animation footage by placing it into a sequence using another codec in FCP, so your RT settings may be affecting the clip. Try exporting your comparison out of FCP and see what that looks like.
And yes, check field order. Should be lower first for interlaced DV. If it were shot progressive, field sep should be “none”, otherwise AE will mess up the footage just a little bit.
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Another possibility is AE applying sub-pixel positioning to your footage. This will happen if you place your layer on an odd or decimal position. Can also happen if your layer has odd numbered dimensions.
The result will be very slightly soft. Not really very noticable, but I’ve noticed it when doing straight Avid-AE-Avid keying jobs.
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Jon Bagge
Editor – London, UK
Avid – FCP – After Effects -
It is DV NTSC footage shot at 60i on the DVX. I imported it into a DVNTSC time line, keyed it using keylight and than exported it in the aimation codec with an alpha channel because that was what was recommended to me for best results for green screening. That is pretty much the extent of my knowledge. Everybody seems to be suggesting that it may be a problem related to the field order. I am going to look into this now. If anyone knows a good resource to learn more about this i would be really appreciative.
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Dave do you know any good resources for troubleshooting field order? the footage is 60i DV NTSC. I didn’t make any adjustments to the field dominance because i have never had to in after effects, but would love to learn how to get a crisp output of this footage. where exactly do i adjust the field order?
Also you mean put it into a ProRes edit timeline in Final Cut?
thanks a lot!
josh
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yes steve i was thinking the re-render of the animation codec in FCP could be a problem. I did try doing a comparison export and it is consistant with how it looks in FCP: the animation codec footage from AE looks slightly more blurry than the original DVNTSC footage in Final Cut.
My Footage was shot 60i. Now that i think about it it seems like that is probably the issue. Most of the other footage i have keyed in AE has been progressive and i have never had this issue before… To clarify should I be adjusting the field order in FCP prior to keying it in AE, or should i be doing it in AE? I do this by using a de-interlacing filter? If you know any resources that can help me better understand how to approach this issue i would would a huge help. Thanks a lot!
josh
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Dave thank you so much for this Amazing response. I am drinking a beer at the moment, but tomorrow morning i am going to play around with the footage per your instructions and will get back to you with my results. Thanks for breaking it down so comprehensively.
yes i know there are limitations to Keying DV footage, but that is ok. this is an experimental short film project, and a sort of “sloppy” look will not detract from it. that is why i can live with the sometimes imperfect edges you get to keys of DV footage. that being said, the Footage being as sharp as possible is really important to me.
I have not been in this field for that long, and most of what i know is self taught. I have worked at a few editing houses but honestly have learned a lot, especially about compression and exporting through my own research. the reason i thought to Key in AE and compose in FCP is the I have a lot of experience with composition in Final Cut, and know how to color correct with the 3-way color corrector like the back of my hand. I have never done a larger composition in AE, which is why I assumed i would just do it in FCP, but maybe this would be a good opportunity to give it a go. I have Colorista which is an amazing color corrector, especially with its ability to do vignetting. Honestly I’ve only been using After Effects for 7 months and don’t really have the confidence yet to do a larger composition in it. But Dave you really think there is an advantage to composing the whole thing in AE rather than FCP? Also, What is a “light wrap?” I know how to use adjustment lights if that is what it involves…
thanks again Dave for your thorough response. I really appreciate it!
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Dave thank you so much for this Amazing response. I am drinking a beer at the moment, but tomorrow morning i am going to play around with the footage per your instructions and will get back to you with my results. Thanks for breaking it down so comprehensively.
yes i know there are limitations to Keying DV footage, but that is ok. this is an experimental short film project, and a sort of “sloppy” look will not detract from it. that is why i can live with the sometimes imperfect edges you get to keys of DV footage. that being said, the Footage being as sharp as possible is really important to me.
I have not been in this field for that long, and most of what i know is self taught. I have worked at a few editing houses but honestly have learned a lot, especially about compression and exporting through my own research. the reason i thought to Key in AE and compose in FCP is the I have a lot of experience with composition in Final Cut, and know how to color correct with the 3-way color corrector like the back of my hand. I have never done a larger composition in AE, which is why I assumed i would just do it in FCP, but maybe this would be a good opportunity to give it a go. I have Colorista which is an amazing color corrector, especially with its ability to do vignetting. Honestly I’ve only been using After Effects for 7 months and don’t really have the confidence yet to do a larger composition in it. But Dave you really think there is an advantage to composing the whole thing in AE rather than FCP? Also, What is a “light wrap?” I know how to use adjustment lights if that is what it involves…
thanks again Dave for your thorough response. I really appreciate it!
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Hey Dave, So in Final Cut, it tells me that my “field dominance” is Lower (Evan)… since my only other options are Upper (odd) and None… I left it at Lower even and exported a clip in thee DVNTSC codec. here is my problem now, in AE it does not give me the option of choosing File>Interpret>Main… I don’t know why but it is not ‘highlightable. Any idea why? Anyway, aside from that i understand your instructions for rendering, and yes i am very comfortable using the render cue. i took an amazing AE class where my teacher stressed on a daily basis the importance and advantages to using the render cue, and i use it every time i do an export.
Also, if i were to try editing in a ProRes timeline in FCP, should i use Apple ProRes 422 or Apple ProRes 422 (HQ)?
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Hey Thanks, I figured out why i could not select Interpret footage >main. You actually need to have the source video clip selected in the browser. Kind of a silly mistake on my part:/ Anyway, so in the render cue. for an animation export, the field render has been set to: “none”. I am assuming i should change that to “lower first?” I am hoping this is the problem. And no i never applied a de-interlace filter in FCP. I am going to make sure than when i did my export from FCP for keying in AE that it isn’t interlacing it.
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