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Is it common for the DP to decide where the boom mic goes?
Whenever I work as a boom operator on a production (Which I have in the past), the DP always decides where the boom mic goes, and as a result the sound often sucks, because he chooses a spot that is too far away, or behind the actors’ heads and is too off axis as a result.
I try to explain this to the director that it’s a problem, but the director just responds that it’s the DPs decision and shrugs it off.
And I cannot go over it wit the DP ahead of time, cause the director or producer never allows me to meet with the DP to go over where the best sound would be gained by mic position from shot to shot, in the storyboards. I’m not even a llowed to see the storyboards.
I even explained to a different director that I could get much better sound if I could see the storyboards, and her response was that the audio department does not see the storyboards. She didn’t even realize the important of this and getting good audio as a result.
So I feel that my sound on previous productions sucks and I cannot even have it on my resume as a result. What do you think? Is this common in filmmaking for the DP to call the shots on audio, even though they are not part of the audio department are more concerned with the cinematography?
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9 Replies
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As the department head it’s the mixers responsibility to talk to those people and explain to them that you need to be where you need to be to give production the best sound possible.
\”I push the RECORD button and hope for the best\”
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Okay thanks, but how would the audio department head talk to the DP when the director or producer does not allow any opportunity for this to happen?
We are not allowed any prior meetings before a shoot or anything, with the DP.
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Maybe they only need a “reference” or “scratch” track because they plan on replacing all the dialog with ADR or maybe even dub to a foreign language?
Else, the DP and the director sound like idiots to me. I would seek work with people who know what they are doing.
Have your A1 share the “Open Letter from your Sound Department” with the producer:
https://filmsound.org/production-sound/openletter.htm———————————————————————————
Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
Hello Ryan and welcome to the Cow Audio Forum.
Is this with many different people on different shoots?
Is it about getting good sound or keeping the microphone out of the frame?
I get the occasional weird request and usually ask for clarification. If where I had the mic sounds better than where they want it, I’ll hand them the headphones and let them hear the difference. Then say, “so you want your position, not mine, right? I just don’t want you blaming me for bad sound when you hear it in post.” (said always with a smile, btw)
Years ago, back in the days when cameras recorded to tape, I was hired for a typical convention shoot to feed house sound to a camera. My mixer was line out. His camera was line in. I set tone from the mixer and set his camera to record it at -20. When the show started, I was hitting his camera with -10 peaks. He got very upset and told me to lower peaks to -20. In the moment I agreed to, but told him that it would under record the audio and cause noise.
He later emailed me that the beginning was RECORDED TOO LOUD AND WAS DISTORTED. The only thing I could figure was that somewhere in his post system, there was a mismatch; a line level feeding a mic level. I told him to put the tape into the camera, plug in headphones and listen. Since I was listening to his camera through the camera return circuit on my mixer, I knew it would be fine. I sent him a copy of my book and never heard from him again. Yay!
Regards,
Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum LeaderWant better production audio?: Ty Ford\’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford\’s Blog -
Well I would say it’s both about keeping the mic out of frame and getting good sound. It’s just that different DPs on past shoots says the boom interferes with their lighting and creates shadows. But I feel this could be easily fixed or avoided with planning and just light the shadows if you must.
Cause making the boom higher, is going to be too far away and the actors sound more far away on the sound track than they do in the video footage as a result.
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[ryan elder] “Cause making the boom higher, is going to be too far away and the actors sound more far away on the sound track than they do in the video footage as a result.”
Exactly. If the DP is going to run things, this is what you get. This is why there is a director; because the director knows (should know anyway) that sound is at least as important as video, and that it takes both to make the picture work. Bad dialog sound is the quickest way I know to empty a theater.
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Production is a co-operative exercise of different teams/crews, each with their own priorities. Of course the lighting people want to get the lighting the very best they can achieve. But ignoring other aspects (like sound) is not being a team player. (And rather selfish and childish, IMHO) The lighting crew should know that sound will be recorded, and that they need to set lights so that you can boom from appropriate angles and distances.
If necessary, the lighting prople should be educated to understand how microphones work just as you understand how light work (at least to the extent that you can cast shadows with your boom, etc.)
SOMEBODY needs to be the manager over ALL the groups, typically the director. If the director gives priority to lighting at the expense of getting decent sound, then he is not doing his job properly. If it is simply a matter of ignorance, then you can attempt to educate him about how microphones work, etc. But if he simply lets his DP make these decisions, then he is abdicating his role and you need to appeal to HIS boss, the producer.
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Recording audio without metering and monitoring is exactly like framing and focusing without looking at the viewfinder. -
OK.
Here’s the thing. The point is, he should want good lighting and good sound. To get that, the crew needs to work as a team. Lighting being able to work around boom issues.
Some years ago (here I go again) I was on a commercial shoot. The next setup was for a guy to come through a door we had built and give some lines. I set my boom on a locked down rig and went to talk to someone. When I came back lighting had put up some light and were calling “boom shadow.”
Because I had worked with these folks before, I said. loud enough so everyone could hear, “That’s not an audio problem, it’s a lighting problem. But if you want I’ll go wire the actor and get yucky lav sound instead of using my Schoeps.” I took my wireless rig back to wardrobe and wired him up. By the time I got back, lighting had figured out how to light the scene without the shadow. I felt like I had graduated from “kiddie school” and thanked lighting for working with me so we could get the best sound.
I told them to expect me to fight for every INCH closer I can get the mic, because the sound will be better.
Regards,
Ty Ford
Cow Audio Forum LeaderWant better production audio?: Ty Ford\’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
Ty Ford Blog: Ty Ford\’s Blog -
Okay thanks. Yeah I feel like they could be working with me as a team.
I saw the movie later on, and I noticed that the cinematography was really good, and they went all out on the lighting, sets’ camera movement, etc.
However, the sound sucked and sounded too far away. Not to bad mouth people’s movies that I have worked on, but I feel that is what they got out of it (shrug).
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