• Audio

  Workflow Question

  Posted by Roberto Cerini on June 26, 2009 at 11:07 am

  Hi – I have a workflow question. I have two scenarios I am trying to figure out.

  1. Video and Audio is recorded into main camcorder
  2. Video is recorded into camcorder (obviously) and audio in separate system (DAW)

  Option 1.:
  I plan on editing the audio in my DAW. Should I first edit the entire video sequence in my NLE so that the audio gets spliced accordingly, then export the audio, import it into my DAW (Nuendo) edit it and re assemble in the NLE (Premiere Pro)?

  Option 2.:
  Should I import the audio into the NLE, line it up with the video, do all the splicing, export the audio, edit it with the DAW and re assemble it in the NLE? I figured this way the audio will get spliced with the video. Or should I first edit the audio and then bring it into the NLE for splicing? Or does it really matter?

  Thanks,

  Roberto Cerini
  https://www.robertocerini.com

  Greg Curda replied 16 years, 9 months ago 7 Members · 9 Replies
• 9 Replies

• 

  John Fishback

  June 26, 2009 at 3:11 pm

  Most of the time audio post happens after the picture is “locked.” Otherwise, syncing the audio to the video (or vice versa) becomes a nightmare.

  John

  MacPro 8-core 2.8GHz 8 GB RAM OS 10.5.5 QT7.5.5 Kona 3 Dual Cinema 23 ATI Radeon HD 3870
  ATTO ExpressSAS R380 RAID Adapter, PDE Enclosure with 8-drive 6TB RAID 5
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  Final Cut Studio 2 (up to date)

  Pro Tools HD w SYNC IO, Yamaha DM1000, Millennia Media HV-3C, Neumann U87, Schoeps Mk41 mics, Genelec Monitors, PrimaLT ISDN
• 

  Roberto Cerini

  June 26, 2009 at 4:06 pm

  So the audio is trimmed during video editing and then the audio is exported and edited and re assembled to the video, correct?

  Roberto Cerini
  https://www.robertocerini.com
• 

  Peter Groom

  June 26, 2009 at 4:08 pm

  Correct – def option 1
  And for the times when th epictures do change significantly AFTER audio export and lock, theres always virtal katy.
  Peter

  Peter
• 

  Ty Ford

  June 26, 2009 at 6:52 pm

  Hey Peter,

  I haven’t used Virtual Katy yet. Can you go on about it a bit?

  Thanks,

  Ty Ford

  Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
  Watch Ty play guitar
• 

  Peter Groom

  June 30, 2009 at 11:18 am

  Hi Ty
  How it came about

  Yes Virtual Katy was named after a real girl called Katy, who worked on the Lord of the rings films with the softwares designer. Her job was to re conform the on going audio tracklay to the amended picture cuts. Im told there were hundreds of revisions each with many many offsets and this became a massive and troublesome task. So after the film, they went of and designed the software.

  What it does.

  VK takes a timeline in an audio workstation (Pro Tools in my case) but its also designed to work on a number of platforms.
  When the pictures are re cut (either by 1 offset or by thousands of offsets) the editor generates 2 EDL’s (Edit decision Lists). List 1 is of the timeline before the changes (when it married up to the audio timeline ) and EDL 2 is after the changes. VK then imports the 2 edls, and analyses (really fast) what has gone on, and applies these changes to the Pro tools timeline, faster than you can see.

  Its really just number crunching the offsets. A few cuts – its probably best just slicing the timeline up yourself with the edl from the editor, but 100 , or 1000, or more. Thats when it saves your bacon.

  Is it reliable

  It hasnt failed me yet!

  Is it costly
  Yes quite (I cant remember but i think I paid about £1000. In the context of lost studio hours and a commercial facility its quickly paid for its self.

  What next
  Well after it chop livered up the timeline to re sync with the new picture cuts, you have to go through the cut points and smooth etc, sort out music transitions etc ane remix the joints, but it does save a LOT of time.

  Have a look at the website. https://www.virtualkaty.com. It has videos etc etc, and you can take part in a live webinar to ask your own questions with John Mckay (the designer)

  Cheers

  Peter

  Dubbing mixer

  Peter
• 

  Ty Ford

  June 30, 2009 at 12:55 pm

  Peter,

  Thanks for taking the time to respond. That’s a great tool. I’m guessing you need a full pro tools rig (not PTLE) to do that or PTLE and the video tool kit.

  Regards,

  Ty Ford

  Want better production audio?: Ty Ford’s Audio Bootcamp Field Guide
  Watch Ty play guitar
• 

  Peter Groom

  June 30, 2009 at 9:20 pm

  Yes I’d expect so, as any EDL will fundementally be timecode based. If the seq in pt isn’t against the same tc base then itll struggle.(fail)
  Id forgotten that PT charge extra for the DV toolkit to open up tc and omf etc. Ridiculous.
  Peter

  dubbing mixer
• 

  Peter Weis

  July 9, 2009 at 11:11 am

  Most pro audio and video programs allow you to work with something called OMF Files. You can export an OMF (Time stamped Audio) from you Video program and open up the OMF in your audio program.

  Production Music, Composer, Audio Engineer
  https://www.gnxmusic.com
• 

  Greg Curda

  August 2, 2009 at 2:52 am

  PTLE will not open an OMF without Digitranslator (supplied in DV Toolkit). The workaround is to open the OMF in a PTHD session first, then transfer to PTLE. Then it’s fine.

  The other issue is that FCP OMFs do not retain the source TC of the audio clips. So if you don’t have to replace anything this is fine. Replacing anything based on TC values won’t happen easily.

  Virtual Katy is almost indispensible for conforming various versions of a picture, if you cant wait for picture lock, or for changes after picture lock.

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