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Uploading to youtube/vimeo
Hi guys,
Thought I’d make an account/post here as every time I search I always see this forum come up.
I’m using Sony Vegas Pro 12 and when I render a clip it turns out fine, however when I upload to youtube or Vimeo it always turns out darker than what’s in the timeline or what I see when I playback in VLC.
I’ve done some googling and there seems to be two types of people: those with the issue and those without it.
I’ve try a few different render settings and they are all the same, darker. I’ve tried the main concept internet presets, a video tute on youtube for a custom preset, Sony MXF preset, I tried installing the dnxhd condec and using that (Quicktime 7 as per John Rofrano’s template tute), nothing appears to be working, always darker.
The only way around it is to render using the above mentioned John Rofrano template and change the dnxhd codec settings to RGB instead of 709, that seems to export it a bit flatter/lighter and when it’s uploaded it looks pretty close to what’s in the timeline/video as viewed through VLC. Surely there’s a better way though?
Just for a test I uploaded the file straight out of the camera (Canon 600D) and it DID NOT go darker, it was fine.
In my googling I saw some people blaming the Quicktime gamma shift, but I’m not using that to render though? So I don’t get it.
Could it be Quicktime? I had to install it to get the Vegas to eat the Prores clips from my Blackmagic Pocket Camera, so I need it installed… when/if Blackmagic decide to release dnxhd for the Pocket Camera, would this help?
The tests I’ve been doing are clips from my Canon 600D, so quicktime shouldn’t be getting used at all through the whole workflow/process.
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30 Replies
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To be honest, i can never be sure why some users has this
issue and others dont. Because once the render from Vegas
looks great, then Vegas should be completely out of the issue.Steve Rhoden
(Cow Leader)
Film Editor & Compositor.
Filmex Creative Media.
https://www.facebook.com/FilmexCreativeMedia
1-876-461-9019 -
[Blake Gibson] “Could it be Quicktime? I had to install it to get the Vegas to eat the Prores clips from my Blackmagic Pocket Camera, so I need it installed… when/if Blackmagic decide to release dnxhd for the Pocket Camera, would this help?”
YouTube is expecting Studio RGB output. That’s why the footage from your camera looked fine. That’s why DNxHD RGB looked fine. They are both Studio RGB. If you render to Computer RGB it will look fine on your computer. If you send Computer RGB to YouTube it will blindly assume that it’s Studio RGB and make it darker to match Computer RGB. Only send YouTube Studio RGB video.
I’m surprised that the MainConcept AVC/AAC “Internet” templates didn’t work fine for this. They do for me.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Thanks guys, the weird thing is though that when I upload the file straight out of the camera it works fine – doesn’t go darker.
I have a silly idea I’m going to try later – uninstall quicktime and install the prores codec for windows instead hoping that will help.
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Hi John,
Thanks for the reply.
I don’t really understand 709 and RGB… Is there an easy way to tell what is RGB and what isn’t? Also with what is Computer RGB and Studio RGB?
The two internet templates I tried both get darker, it’s weird, not only would I have thought it should have worked fine, no one in the comments on one youtube video about the template mentioned their videos getting darker.
There’s no setting in Vegas for it or something? My friend who uses Vegas 10 just told me this morning that he gets the issue too.
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[John Rofrano] “YouTube is expecting Studio RGB output.”
Yes, and Canon DSLRs output full range. 0-255. There is an option flag in AVC which signals this and Canon sets this flag.
Upload the Camera directly and the online service can correctly adjust and maybe that is why the direct upload worked.
The Vegas decoder knows the option and lets you import the data stream in full range, but when you render you will want the stream in Studio RGB range like John said. Vegas encoders never set the full range flag regardless of source range, AFAIK.
It gets more complicated if you are using the preview window on your PC screen. It wants full range to look correct but then render will want Studio RGB. If your source is Studio then your preview window will look flat but the render will be fine.
Either way you will want to use Sony Levels and the appropriate, depending of source, Compute to Studio, or, Studio to Computer, RGB presets typicaly on your output fx.
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HI;
If you want to geek out – and this is important to make vids look good on YT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRFAL-TJWWw
More non-Vegas geeking:
https://www.jazzythedog.com/testing/DNxHD/HD-Guide.aspx
and this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UfUIy5OSZY
Have fun …
Steve
Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T7500, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia Quadro 2000, Vegas 12, 11, 10, 9 DVDA 6.0 & 5.2(build 135) Sony HDR-CX550V, Panasonic GH3 with LUMIX G X VARIO 12-35mm / F2.8 ASPH, LUMIX G X VARIO 35-100mm / F2.8
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Hi All,
Last night after I posted the above, some things surfaced in my memory from 2011, when I was just starting to learn about Studio RGB vs Computer RGB and a lot of other things.
I remembered that before just using the knee-jerk levels recommendations, one must consider the camera’s capability. In another competing forum, there was a very good discussion of the various recommendations for rendering to YT/Vimeo but also how to test one’s camera to see what levels it was capable of.
Basically, you shoot test footage under two conditions:
* Black – lens cap on, stop down all the way, reduce the gain/ISO to the lowest level.
* White – shoot something bright (not the sun!), wide-open, no filters, gain/ISO at max.Import the footage into your editor and observe the levels. You might be surprised!
Back then, I not only did this, I also did some renders using the various options, posted to YT, and looked at the results. I recall that I was surprised in that what was supposed to happen did not happen. I’m going to try that again, including the black vs white levels test, using my new GH3.
I hope I am not breaking a Cow rule by providing the following link to the discussion on a competing forum … I’m supplying it in the interest of knowledge dissemination. I tried to find the Cow posting guidelines for this and was unsuccessful… TIA for not banning me.
https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/what-happens-vegas/503355-hd-guide-vimeo-youtube-web.html
Steve
Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T7500, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia Quadro 2000, Vegas 12, 11, 10, 9 DVDA 6.0 & 5.2(build 135) Sony HDR-CX550V, Panasonic GH3 with LUMIX G X VARIO 12-35mm / F2.8 ASPH, LUMIX G X VARIO 35-100mm / F2.8
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Weird, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered this problem. I didn’t know that YouTube displays things in Studio RGB, but I never set my levels for that when I render to Sony AVC or Mpeg’s AVC templates.
Would I not notice this because I shoot usually on camcorders and lower to mid level DSLRs, which don’t have the same dynamic range as the BMPC?
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[Angelo Mike] “I didn’t know that YouTube displays things in Studio RGB, but I never set my levels for that when I render to Sony AVC or Mpeg’s AVC templates.”
You Tube does NOT display video in Studio RGB. They display video as Computer RGB. They bold assume that everything you upload is ALREADY Studio RGB and they blindly convert it to Computer RGB whether it needs it or not which is why so many people complain that their video looks darker on YouTube! (because they darken it thinking that needs to be convert from Studio RGB to Computer RGB).
This is why you should send them Studio RGB because they are going to assume that it is and do the conversion to Computer RGB whether you like it or not.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
I’m still struggling to “calibrate” my new Dell Ultrasharp, so right now I have no idea what I am seeing 😉
But John is right, stupid YT “stretches” the levels. If you have anything between 0 and 16, or between 235 and 255, it will be crushed/blown out.
Does anyone know if Vimeo does the same? I forget, and am too lazy to test ;b
Steve
Win7 Pro X64 on Dell T7500, MultiTB SATA, 8GB RAM, nVidia Quadro 2000, Vegas 12, 11, 10, 9 DVDA 6.0 & 5.2(build 135) Sony HDR-CX550V, Panasonic GH3 with LUMIX G X VARIO 12-35mm / F2.8 ASPH, LUMIX G X VARIO 35-100mm / F2.8
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