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Rendering with higher bitrate then source?
I’m just about done with rendering this holiday movie that ive been working on for ages.. Anyways, my question is simply if there are any benefits with rendering higher bitrate then what the source file is.
Ive been shooting with GoPro3 Black Edition 30 mbps, and for some reason I think it looks slightly better or sharper when rendering like 50 mbps. Im not sure if its only my mind playing with me or if it is the case.
Any advice please? Ive added the full info on the go pro footage below if its of any help..
Thanks in advance
General
Complete name : J:RåmaterialeFerie2013 – AlanyaGoPro3Dag 5GOPR2886.MP4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : JVT
Codec ID : avc1
File size : 359 MiB
Duration : 1mn 39s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 30.2 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2013-06-17 14:28:56
Tagged date : UTC 2013-06-17 14:28:56
AMBA :Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.2
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=15
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 1mn 39s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 30.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 59.940 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.241
Stream size : 356 MiB (99%)
Title : GoPro AVC
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2013-06-17 14:28:56
Tagged date : UTC 2013-06-17 14:28:56
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 1mn 39s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 1.52 MiB (0%)
Title : GoPro AAC
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2013-06-17 14:28:56
Tagged date : UTC 2013-06-17 14:28:56 -
20 Replies
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[Darren Hugh] “my question is simply if there are any benefits with rendering higher bitrate then what the source file is.”
No. A higher bit-rate will not add anything to the video. It’s just using more bits to represent the same information.
[Darren Hugh] “Ive been shooting with GoPro3 Black Edition 30 mbps, and for some reason I think it looks slightly better or sharper when rendering like 50 mbps. Im not sure if its only my mind playing with me or if it is the case.”
It’s your mind playing tricks on you. As I said, you are just using more bits to represent the same information. There are some codecs that interpolate color information from 4:2:0 to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 and it’s possible that simply rendering to them will make the video look different, and you may interpret this difference as “better”, but it has nothing to do with bit rates. Rendering to a lower bit rate will loose information, but rendering to a higher one will not “create” information.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Thanks a lot for taking your time replying. Really appreciated.
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You’re welcome Darren. Hope you found it useful.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
No need to go higher than the source bitrate when staying in the same codec.
GoPro files are AVC. If you are encoding to an MPEG-2 format, then there is a use for a higher bitrate than the GoPro source file bitrate. This is because AVC compresses better, and can give more detail at the same bitrate than MPEG-2.
I also have a GoPro Black and at the high bitrate AVC the Black can do, it is amazing the fine detail that “cheap” little camera can give. 35 Mbps VBR XDCAM and 50 Mbps XDCAM cannot quite preserve the fine detail of the source. Both are mepg-2. Only AVC at the same settings and high bitrate intermediate formats like DNxHD preserve the source.
My videos are on my mountain bike and I have a lot of fine brush along the sides of the trail and this is the fine detail I speak of.
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The exception to the idea that rendering to a higher bitrate does not help with quality is if you use effects that fundamentally change the data from the original clip. Plugins like Neat Video add and rearrange data so that a bitrate change may do some good. Any kind of generator plugin (light rays, glint, etc.) also changes clip data. The original footage does not look better but the quality of the effect is tied to the bitrate (and resolution.) In complex or overlapping generator effects artifacts can appear even at medium to high rates that will disappear the higher you go. I am guessing, since you did not mention it, that your effects use on the project was minimal though.
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Im working with quite alot of magic bullet plugin. Mostly the intro of the video is the part with alot of FX. The rest is mainly just levels and some colour correction.
Im not sure about the codec stuff, I dont have that much knowledge about it.
Can anyone of you just tell me which codec would be the best? Ive done alot or videos before, but that wasnt with go pro footage. Back then i rendered in xvid, how would that work out with the go pro footage?
Again sorry about the lack of knowledge, im a abit of an amateur to be honest.
Im editing with sony vegas 12 btw.
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[Darren Hugh] “Can anyone of you just tell me which codec would be the best? Ive done alot or videos before, but that wasnt with go pro footage. Back then i rendered in xvid, how would that work out with the go pro footage?”
Best for what? How are you delivering the footage? Blu-ray? DVD? Internet?
I can tell you that xvid should be avoided. If you are delivering for Internet then use Main Concept AVC with one of the “Internet HD …” templates.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Sorry my bad. Video os made to be viewed on tv’s with HDMI cabel and computers.
Darren
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[Darren Hugh] “Video os made to be viewed on tv’s with HDMI cabel and computers.”
I would use the MainConcept AVC Internet HD template. Computer video and “internet” video is the same thing… i.e. both are played on a computer.
~jr
http://www.johnrofrano.com
http://www.vasst.com -
Thanks again for the reply, man.
Footage is shot in 1920 x 1080, with 59.94 frames, but I can’t see 59.94 frames in frame rate options?
Also: I was testing it out the other day with xvid. What I did was rendering so that the mbps was just above the 30 mark (source file), and then I encoded with Handbrake to mp4 (or mkv).
What’s your opinion on that? Do you think there will be a lot of quality loss by doing so? I mean rendering xvid at first really.
Thanks again
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